Charles Dickens, Ghost Club, Fraud discussed on BSP: Believer Skeptic Podcast

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Yeah I don't know that it's hard to say like. The twentieth. Better. I mean they still should've done some investigating they were definitely roaring. Okay. Well, that's an all right. Well might be a little more uplifting I'm so it'll be good to like finish it off. That's crazy though I can't believe that. Then his fucking belt buckle but yet oh, it's not him. I mean you would think though okay say you're a freshman in you're trying to hide a body. You would think that they would remove the belt buckle or hide it. Who knows so okay, that's Pretty much not totally been solved was wild. I'm going to be talking to you. The Ghost Club okay yeah okay. So here are you writing so when it comes to S- belief in outright disbelief. Oh it says. This is belief in our disbelief or not the only options. were. Way. What or at least they weren't in nineteenth century Britain the Victorian didn't stick to simple arguments about the existence of ghosts. They also argued about how when, and why they might exist spiritualists attack spiritualists over whether the supernatural should be classed as natural the commission like that conversation like this shouldn't even this is so fact that this is actually not even be considered supernatural anymore they don't have any proof with concrete. And there's something that I mentioned a little bit in here about spiritualism being a movement. Huge Movement I didn't know what it was and I had to I. Don't say I make fun of myself. About it so scientists discovered whether psychological or physiological factors were play inventors, politicians, journalists joined in two. So this was a really popular pastime talking about the supernatural. Practitioners actually needed places to meet outside their existing societies and organisations were established to debate the boundaries of the immaterial and one of those committees was called the Ghost Club. Right. So the Ghost Club is a paranormal investigation and research organization founded in London in Eighteen, sixty two, it is believed to be the oldest such organization in the world. So it's like still in existence since eighteen, sixty two, it is primarily investigated ghosts and huntings. Now, the earliest days of the club or not super recorded but we do know that it was small populated by mail intellectuals, of course, because it's back then and it in one of its primary purposes was to like best best game but also to expose fraud. So that's that's interesting. So it's not just to say, yes, this is real and that's convince everyone it was. Let's prove that this is real by exposing fraudulent claims a ghost club is dried to expose fraud. I think it's a thing where they want proof like I could see being a part of like going to find proof, and so you go to examine well, Charles Dickens is set to be a founding member. I was like Oh. Wow. The first in a procession of writers including William Butler Yeats. Who joined its ranks? So Dickens embodied some of the contradictory attitudes of his era and of the original goes club as well. Now, it said it's difficult from a modern perspective to reconcile dickens the exposure of fraud whenever he was a Dabbler in mesmerized him and they said that he actually involved putting people into trances so as to influence the magnetic forces that. Allied them like it's like, Dickens, was kind of a part of some of this weird stuff that I had no idea. Yeah. I just thought he was a an author and that was it. No, you don't think about what they do besides writing he boasted in letters of his magnetic powers and attempted to use them to cure a friend of it. So it's like The whole magnetism kind of I wouldn't call it a movement but that was like something they used to like cure people I had no idea I guess you see magnets like even now there's a member at the the space the. U. F., O. Convention there was damn. But that magazines or some shit over this other weird. Bother US every time we walk he would bug the crap out of us. Well, Dickens of course was also famous for ghost stories. So it's like wait. So he's kind of a skeptic, but he's writing all this stuff, but it turns out that he was always trying to find ordinary reasons for extraordinary happenings. So did they actually expose anything? Well for that we're going to talk about their very first case that they worked on and it was the case of the Davenport brothers. Nancy drew in the Davenport brothers. So the Democrat brothers were American magicians in the late. Nineteenth. Century. They presented illusions that they and others claim to be supernatural. They began in eighteen fifty four less than a decade after spiritualism at taken off in America and I didn't know spiritualism was that it's a religious movement based on the belief of spirits so they believe in spirits. Lidge it's kind of. Says a religious movement. New Age. Mrs. That's kind of what spiritual and it's really day believing in ghosts and wanting that to happen. But they also believe in like medium shipping all that stuff goes through all that all exactly all that. So you could see why like this company of magician kind of become popular because they can take advantage of it even if it's real or not, you know what I mean so. They actually had an assistant that worked with them and he actually was a believer and all this happened. He actually thought that they were really doing their their thing that they thought. They thought that they were possessed by spiritual entities. So the Davenport's most famous effect was called the box illusion and what they did is they were tied inside of a box which contained musical instruments. So and I saw a picture of this and it's like you get bored you just start playing in his yet you just started playing skin flute. So there's a left cabinet and a right cabinet, and then in the middle are just instruments like hanging from and you can see those but they would tie themselves up..

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