Fraud, Google, Lakers discussed on Marketing Today with Alan Hart
Human? So the normal sense sense of fraud wasn't really kind of flippable but we had was attribution fraud where basically ad networks were taking credit for installs. That would have happened. Organically Ganic -ly. That would have happened anyway and they deserve get inside that path and then sort of take credit so one example in the Google play stores these ad networks works with create apps. That would do things like monitor your battery power help you make. Your battery lasted longer. Whatever these APPs had root access to your phone? So you're you're on your phone and you decide. Oh I'm going down the UBER APP because it's so great you decide that on your own without seen any ads so you type in U. B. e. r. into the Google. Play store to find Uber. And as soon as you hit the letter R. This APP that's in the background. Fires a click on your device and then basically sort of makes it look like you clicked done an ad and then Lo and behold. You downloaded the UBER APP. Thanks ad network raises his hand says hey that download. Hey see I have click on that device now pay me twenty dollars all right. And that's just one of the many many of just amazing kind of methods that they have and it's like it's not like an accident. It's highly intentional. And then they kind of spend a lot of time because they're generating all these fake clicks. They have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to kind kind of hide them. SORTA they basically look at all the apps out there and say okay. Well we have these one billion clicks that most of them are fake. And so we're gonNA tell kind of Uber Okay. There were one hundred thousand clicks in this half two hundred thousand here they just start making up where those things were and they don't do it that well sometimes you can be like. Hey wait a second. This APP here only has a thousand thousand and year stain that drove twenty thousand installs. Like that's I mean. Thank you for my creative is so good but that seems unrealistic unrealistic. I'd expect like it to drive to right right. And so as you start really pulling this apart and refining. What's going on? It can get pretty easy to see but until you do that. If you're just relying on for the high level reporting our agencies you just don't catch it and so we ended up after a lot of back and forth internally. The Lakers remembered the league. Uber just happened so no one wants to risk giving up writers acquiring new riders. We turned off two thirds of our spend so we turned off one hundred million in of annual stand out of the one fifty and basically saw no change in our number of writer installs. What we saw is a lot of installs we we saw it coming through? Pay Channels suddenly came in through organic rice. You big flip flop there but the total number didn't change right. Well that's I a hundred million dollars out cutoff. no-change limited change the fifty million. That was still play. was that just. You had whittled it down to what was actually working at that point. That was the first cut because that was the stuff that was. I would say obvious when we started being more surgical and I think knocked out another twenty million of the remaining fifty so we about thirty million. Yeah I mean that's that's insane in part because you think I don't know you just you don't realize that there's bad people world I guess at that scale I mean that's a huge scale of just nefarious things at play. Yeah I mean the walk a couple of things first I saving one hundred and some odd million a year uber back in the the heady days of twenty seventeen. Actually people didn't care that much about it was actually pretty really funny. I I think saving one hundred million right now it would be like. Oh my God. This is life changing and kind of like okay. That's cool so how we reinvesting that money to grow faster right. There wasn't isn't the time at Uber and again this made it a little harder. There was no desire to really kind of save money. It was more like hey spend your budget. Spend to budget just always spent budgets. This was a very different culture in sort of like business attitude than what we're seeing right now if you're talking to other Other marketers there's that might be in a similar position in don't realize it or just are paying attention at this point in time. Like what actions would you say. They should be doing right now. I would start by assuming that like half of what's out there on the display channels is fraud like assume that and then ask yourself. Are you being smart enough to sort of get rid of it right but think think half of it is fraud. I I think there's estimates that that say it's it's even higher than that and I would say the main thing you have to do is keep an eye out for that fraud yourself. Your your agency won't do it the MP's don't do it man. Sadly even the folks on not do it because you know while agencies and as they get paid on volume of spend so again these are not bad people but symptoms new just the incentives are not really there and for all of us overcoming those basic human. Incentives is pretty hard hard to even your team. 'cause remember getting a sort of a true APP install like when I do it legitimately cost me forty dollars and I find the source that's only costing Emme five like now. I'm beating all my numbers. The first thing I'm GonNa do as a director of acquisition is not say. Hey wait a second. Maybe I'm not really crushing rushing my numbers. Maybe there's something going on here know that that's that's not how humans work like. Oh my God I'm killing it. What else can I do right? And so like there has has to be someone who doesn't have a stake in kind of this spend going away and Kinda your cost per acquired customer going up. 'cause remember fraudulent new customers are much cheaper than ones you actually incrementally acquire. Yeah would you still use programmatic spend today you know I. I would not do display without a pretty sizable are pretty decent analytics team. That could be processing all all the information. That's coming in and really looking at it right right so I think again. There are good players out there but the problem is if you kind of don't have of the tools and again it's you can't just sort of outsource like oh wait. Here's an anti-fraud to a let me just run it through that these fraud guys like they're constantly moving they're constantly we evolving. They're really smart. This is billions and billions of dollars. They're making right so you have to always be on it be like okay. Let me poke here wait a second. That looks so weird. Let me dig in. Hey I WANNA to see that file wait. You don't give it the fine. I'm cutting you off right. You have to be very on it. You can't just be like oh I'm GonNa have hire an auditor or I'm going to heighten you bring on a tool like you have to be super engaged engaged and you need a decent size number of team in tools to do that will and I. I think there's a ton of marketers. Today disowned the surface. They are taking their agencies word. They've got fraud detection. Whatever that means or they they're buying a fraud detection tool but I don't think any fraud detection to catch what you just described now? And even if it catched what ca I described. It won't catch with the next next right and none of those things. You're always looking backward and you have to be on it and you know eight. I mean fraud detection tools. Eliecer claiming to agents aren't experts in fraud. They're experts in line right and this is a very technical kind of difficult thing to do. Are there any. I don't know advice you'd give in terms of picking better partners or people to help you along the way. Yeah I mean there there are some folks again like I know a doctor who was on your show At some point and he he's someone I have a a tremendous amount of respect for an again. What he does you know? He has a few tools but mostly he does. He's like let me come in and like just look through what's going on right. They're putting in the hours do that and again. That is something you can have higher for. Bring our external to do. But you just can't you can never put on. Autopilot right can never put it on. Autopilot Department Now I know goes. Let's transition a little bit from fraud. Was Not your only measurement challenge Uber. You told me about in prior conversation Asian about the Bison Management Approach for the. Hello my name is I can't remember. Remember is Dr Darah. Darah so element name was Dr Campaign which was was really brand reputation campaign after all the tumultuous time right the new. CEO Comes in and tells a little bit about what you were trying to do. When you're incoming.