PAN, Greg, Peter Pan discussed on The Bechdel Cast
Like he this is what he want want. Just. So obsessed with death and dying like wanting to go out in a blaze of glory and it's there and it's subtle but I would I do WanNa? Know more about the daddy issues yeah. Okay. So let's talk about this. So this sort of I found this really interesting because I mean Jamie we've also talked a lot about how like so many movies just kind of boil down to like a father son relationship or always some under toner overtone in a lot of movies so Here I appreciate that we get an exploration of. that. Kind. Of Obsessive Nece with my father and my son can be really toxic and that it can stem from. A really morbid place that has nothing to do with familial love and it has everything to do with just like societal roles and expectations and all this. Yeah. Yeah. So Vidal is obsessed with his father. We come to learn which we learn because he keeps his broken watch with him, and then we find out the back story. Of this watch where his father died heroically in battle and as he was dying, he like smashed the face of the watch so that his son would know the exact time he died because that's how a brave man dies according to this. This is my first time hearing this but I'll I'll go with it. Such an. An odd thing for you want your kids at like I want him to know that time not that I loved him but time what. This time has actually been very traumatizing for him to know all this time. Right and here's something I don't get. So maybe you can help me understand this but. So we find out this back story, and then the guy at dinner is like Fidel is that true and he's like, no, that's nonsense. My father didn't even own a watch even though we've seen said watch with the smashed face of it many times because he's constantly looking at it and like fiddling with it. So I was confused as to why he would deny that same that that's kind of way in made it. So curious to me because he's so. Obsessed with it. Then why would he deny? Yeah, I don't know if it was more of like pride or like I'm I don't have feelings I keep my daddy's broken watch with me and I don't put it under my pillow and they sleep like I i. it was easier for me to read that as he was lying because otherwise it does kind of muddle that. But yeah, I was a little confused about that as well. But why would you lie I think it has to do somewhat with they like having to live under that shadow because that officer was just like your father was such an incredible soldier. undertone that you'll never be able to live up to and so he's like fuck him. That's you know he didn't have a watch camp but. One of the other like visual things that you're Mo-. Has noted that I don't think I ever would have understood otherwise was that a Madonna the entire movie lives alone in what I think is the mill or whatever the giant room is but that giant mill symbolizes a giant broken clock 'cause the is all cogs and machines that are not moving. So he is so obsessed he's literally cocooned himself inside of a broken clock that's all he lives for is smashing that clock into die yes. I. Read that too. Yeah. That was like I have to watch the movie again by. What I find funny about this whole watch thing that basically the same exact thing happens pulp fiction win Christopher walking comes in and he's like Hey Bruce Willis his character as a kid be your daddy kept this watch up his butthole for two years so that I can give it to you and it's like, okay like No. But like just a little bit more about this kind of father son obsession saying where than we learn before the baby is before baby greg is born they don't know the sex of the baby, but he just keeps assuming it's a boy you know biologically male. Like, annoyed that he was right about that but it is a greg everyone everyone I mean. So does Carmen and affiliate also takes this at face value as well. So I yeah. It would be interesting if they turned out to not be right but I guess it. It serves the story that it is like a male baby because then he can continue to be obsessed with it and it does make that moment at the end with like you mentioned Jamie where Mercedes is like your son isn't even GonNa know your name thing you're dead Greg? Senior. Yeah And then you would you think best case scenario and again because we're talking about such a violent period of time we don't know but ideally Baby Greg be brought up by by rebels would be kind you know that makes that's another way in which affiliates sacrifice would not have been in vain that she is inadvertently getting. You know her her little brother a better life. At least spiritually, and probably in every way, then he would have had if he had stayed with the captain. Yes. Hit a quick thing. I wanted to address here that That I mean, it's it's kind of service but I just wanted to I guess just even reference it because it seems like del Toro is kind of unambiguously referencing allison wonderland a few different times in this. Like. Most prominently with the literal dress, which she isn't you know very fond of, but there it is of this story that is usually told and written by men that features a young girl going into a tunnel and. Going into a four vagina learning a thing or two about a singer to and then coming out on the other side in one way. So I just wanted to reference the other movies, some of which we've covered that take the same tack. So obviously, it seems like the at least the Popular Genesis of it is Alice in wonderland where a young girl falls. into a floor vagina and meets a bunch of men that don't like her and and also in that case a queen, and then you know she comes out, we've covered cora line that is another another vagina POPs up, swallowed her up. She learns a lot about her her role in the world and her feelings about your parents she's popped out of the vagina. Back. In the rebirth, this also happens in spirited away a movie I have not seen in many years so I can't speak to the specifics of it, but it's the same. Young girl tumbles into a natural vagina POPs out. And then Pan's labyrinth where this is this is the the floor vagina approach where she goes down a series of tunnels meets a series of photos, and then I mean I think the most tragic example where she doesn't survive in the traditional sense, but her memory survives and she kind of graduates into. She's not even going to move out of the floor vaginas. She just GonNa live there. Deeper down into it also wanted to. Back up my my little. Journey to womanhood metaphor not because not just because there is such a huge precedent for it. Sure. In fiction from of tours that are generally very very loved. So again, I'm not like on it, but it is a thing. I did a little bit of research on like the FAWN and Pan. The Fun and and the like the mythological creature of Pan Traditionally, a very sexual character. So if we're reading. Pan Is. Presenting himself in as little goat legs to. To Australia saying a series of things to hurt that are very confusing giving her a bunch of what seems to her like random goals that she hasn't fully understand. I've liked that does lend itself to the read of like she is on this journey towards figuring out what womanhood is to her because literally the sex God shows up and she's like I don't know at this guy's talking about because she's ten So my little rant on vk. We love to toss a girl into a hole in popular culture. We just love it. I was worried about that too because it's called Pans labral in the English translation of the title but not in the Spanish one, it just translates to the labyrinth of the fawn or the funds labyrinth but I guess because Pan was a more recognizable thing than a fun which for me that wasn't true. I don't know what Pants I had to certainly misled some of us. Yeah it's it's not Peter Pan. So what the Hell? Yeah..