CFC, Australia, Reagan discussed on The Joe Rogan Experience
It's kind of hilarious but. These kids are engaging even more in social media and less in hang out with each other. It's really like a perfect recipe for distorted in confused aside and scary, it is and again it's a new thing so the regulations that are in place. They're just. There's really nothing to prevent people from using it to manipulate things right. It's not illegal, and it will take a long time before we get those in place. And also BEF- might be too late. You know before recognize the repercussions. FACEBOOK's talked about making their own money. They're talking about making their own bitcoin type crypto currency I mean that takes place mean they're already manipulating things in some really weird ways. If they start having their own money on top of that, and then they can manipulate their own individual economy. Like what does that look like? No one even considered known considered crypto currency twenty years ago, no one considered the impact of social media ten years ago. What are we going to be looking at thirty years from now? Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean you know our failure of imagination goes both ways we we don't tend to imagine the problems that are going to result from the technologies and the new industries. We also. Hardly ever imagine how we will solve those problems we hardly ever if you look at any kind of speculative fiction movies or or comic books. I mean you. You don't see progress. You don't see people getting together figuring out a problem hammering out of solution putting it in place that sort I mean, because, of course it's boring. Cinematic, yeah, just. It's all deeply disturbed and terminator. It's kind of interesting. If you compare that to much older science fiction that that has a much more positive perspective off, not always, but at least there was often something that was positive, although I have to say, a lot of that is is stuff that was actually put together by corporations who are showing you the home of the future, and all their marvelous appliances, and those fools were hopeful they were they were up and we want to encourage hope. We just wanted to be realistic and focused and driven home most certainly. The ozone layer's interesting subject. You cover because that doesn't get discussed anymore, but I've been Australia, and you go outside and burst into flames There's everywhere you go Australia. There's these billboards for skin cancer. It's really it was re released. It was last year which was over ten years ago, but it's really strange. There's these billboards everywhere that show tumors and show you know people that have skin cancer and talk to you about the damages, the dangers of Sun. William giant hole. Like Australia, yeah, they're. They're close enough to the ozone hole or. Partially under. The. hairspray! Exactly. Yeah. I mean it's. It is amazing how that story does seem to have been forgotten threat and the fact. Of of the success I mean we caused this huge problem We discovered this huge problem which we need I mean that was kind of serendipitous. And yes, the industry denied it and just kind of came in two chapters I. It was all industry saying. This is an attack on free enterprise. Probably the KGB is behind it. I mean what else. Is. There was one Aerosol company president who suspected it was the KGB but but many industry leaders were talking about this being as an anti-capitalist crusade, and partly because this was the seventies, so they already faced. All, of these demanding environmentalists, saying take the lead out of the gasoline, and do all kinds of other things, and so they were starting to feel like attacked on all sides and and eventually you know so. There was some denial. They're mostly political. Eventually, that got handled well, I shouldn't say eventually. It got handled relatively quickly, because actually not only ninety seventy six when they said okay. We're getting this stuff out of the hairspray out of the. We don't need this inspiration hands. That was in the spring dot. Chlorofluorocarbons CFC's which were invented. Ironically by the same guy who invented leaded gasoline at GM, boy invented both of these documents name. His name is Thomas Midgely Yeah, and he left quite a mark. On the world, but but here's the thing I mean I blame him for putting leading gasoline that was terrible, but inventing CFC's was actually done because it was replacing a poisonous gases that were been in refrigerators. And they would sometimes leak and kill people, so people were just transitioning now from iceboxes, two fridges, and and so they needed a non toxic gas to put in there, so he came up with this, and it was nontoxic, and so you know at the time. Nobody really even knew much about the ozone layer, and they certainly didn't know. See if we're GONNA wreck it so much much less obvious risk and then it wasn't in until the seventies then scientists who who were just sort of curious. Put this altogether and realized. Oh, we are wrecking the Ozone Layer and by seventy six I think it was seventy six. the Ford Administration, said okay. We're getting it out of the CAN. You got a couple of years and this industry aerosol industry who had been screaming and yelling about? anti-capitalists! Said Okay I mean it wasn't was not that big a deal. It was easy for them to do and then then I. Guess we were in the Carter Administration. They were going to start looking at the harder problem of. How do you replace CFC's in refrigerators and air conditioners, and they were putting up a plan for that, but then Reagan got elected, and then in the concerns of the sixties and seventies about. How we protect the environment. Were replaced by concerns about how do we? Avoid environmental regulations because they they were. They felt it was hurting business, and so they basically dropped the ball on this completely and the corporations like Pont, which was the top CFC maker. They had been working on substitutes, but once the the pressure of regulation went away. They just dropped it. They didn't keep looking for substitutes. Even though they had the the same science telling them that there was a risk here, but they decided. We're not going to have to worry about it. Ben Eventually the ozone holes discovered and scientists are shocked because the models had predicted. A gradual reduction ozone, and suddenly you've got this deep reduction in ozone covers like. This huge space over Antarctica. One of the reasons NASA had not discovered this with their satellites. Was that they? Were expecting so much less that they had apparently programmed computers to read huge readings like this as instrument error. It was actually the British. Who discovered this? They they did it. The old fashioned way going down to Antarctica like measuring things, so anyway announced it the NASA looked back and said whoops, right, huge ozone hole, then everything kind of accelerated, and and by eighty seven we had the Montreal Protocol and even though Reagan had run on this anti-regulatory platform. He signed the Montreal Protocol. Protocol Senate ratified it I. Don't think there are any dissenting votes So you know that was a big success story? And by the way by the time things really were winding down. Even Dupont said okay. Yeah, that there's enough science here. We're GONNA stop making our product. And so it's sort of the one example. I can point to where science and evidence overcame denial. But. It's an example where the product wasn't their core product, a little sliver of revenue. That wasn't that lucrative. They could replace it with something that they could sell and they were gonNA clearly regulated anyway so so clearly the you know. The benefits of continued denial had sort of disappeared and. So, you can't count on evidence. Leading to the end of corporate denial more typically, you have a situation like tobacco and fossil fuels where. Even, if it does lead to denial, doesn't. Don't stop selling the product right so. And again, obviously, oil companies can't just stop selling their product, but they can be part of a process for us all to figure out how we're going to replace it as quickly as possible. What efforts were done if any to regenerate ozone? just cut the emissions. Of Anything I, don't know that..