Sesia libby onto this by telling you. How very feisty. The cj festival so we have a very nice tests in the sesia that seems right and has been used since nineteen ninety nine point. Early nineties guy in this was a very nice tested on band. Cohen was able to a pioneer so we test sinister leads by looking for a trite cooled consistency over time. So what we do is we ask Tell us their associations and in fact we do this more sophisticated way so for example we have tests that show the letters and numbers in random boorda every time. A graphic appears the senate seats required to choose the specific aesthetic colorful really fine grain. Color pilot has like sixteen million colors so an a will appear sinister. Chooser executive read a seven will appear the steve will choose exact shade of green on and wants to get to the end of the test. We surprised in the seats. We repeated so they do the whole thing over and over again and they can do this anything from twice two. Maybe three times a movie right. What we have at the end is each letter number with the colors given to it over time by the same city state and then we can use a technique that allows us to colonists. So when i ask you for the color avai the first time and the second time i plot those colors in space and i say how close they in spice now if you are consistent those colors will be very close in color space. You'll have said the same shade of red twice. If you all's control will be inventing it making it up. Very inconsistent very large distances So we can quantify the consistency of a sinister In terms of decision color space initials is the sinister very very very consistent. You're not going to fool them if you say what color is seven. That always gotta tell you exactly the same shade of no subtle lime green. They're going to they're going to be spot. On i control is going to be inconsistent. And so we have a threshold of consistency. Citizens have to be off the threshold in order to be validated as a city state. So when we run these tests we usually stop by saying first of all. This isn't a sesia. have you seen stage. I knew that everybody who says she goes on to be consistent in everybody who says goes on to be inconsistent but actually what we find is every shrew consistent Who says they have seen a sesia. Their afam known sin estate saying they have similar sesia and the reasons all actually not too surprising. There's a tiny bit over social desirability. Quite nice to say you have something interesting. But actually there are lots of artists who say have sinister asia because what they have is a really fine grain appreciation for color and that's quite easy to confuse so lots of the nonsense estates reports. Seizure are artists on images. Some of them are just mistaken. Some of them are just not concentrating. But all in all if i ever now review. Pipe was on seizure whether it's no consistency tested. It's dead in the water because you were talking about Artists and creative types. Is it more likely that a person who is creative and isn't artist would have Is there actually some association. So yes this seems to be so on festival. If you look within creative disciplines. You're more likely to find sin estates now that makes it difficult because autism more likely to accurately say there have similar sesia but still more among autistic people. So you have to really use these cafo tests. But yes you find sixties. More likely to come into artistic professions and those professions More musicians with colored music sinister asia for example We can also find evidence of high of creativity with lab tests so on the so for example. A creativity is quite well. Known is remote associates test on in that test. You'll given three words as you'll give three words and you have to provide the false word that links the mole and i have to think about this. Why don't reveal the linke would but an example might be. This is tough round summer. Now those three words linked by one other word and that other would is camp so bootcamp some camp campground and this is a test of creativity incident Very well in this test We also have evidence. This creativity is starting quite early. Some we have recently finished large. Elc funded project. So european be such council funded us to look in a segement children for five years on. We can even see that creativity traits emerging early in children. Some when we find children From the general population. So we're not relying on people to come forward with screened thousands of children. We've found the senate states among them. We look at their personality and the children don't realize the special. The parents don't know that they have that you'll have seen a sesia but everybody concurs these sinister these a higher in the Experiences which is linked to intellectual curiosity boost creativity so children themselves feel that they're more creative in their personalities that parents feel more creative personalities. I'm we can see this really young age around. I think to we tested with between six and ten can see these effects By if not by six than by inner seventy eight so yeah it's creative population you've done research that's found that even though most people do not have since these they do have cross sensory experiences or associations for example associating higher pitched tones with brighter collars Can you tell us about that research and how it relates to send a sesia sure this is a ways air research that can really played with my head because we look at many different sensory domains and we look at how they crossover in many different ways. So i'm going to think the one that you just described actually a great finding by among other people michael j. b. board. He has shown that people systematically associate the pitch of music with colors in several ways so for example higher pitch so. Imagine a test where i play. You sounds To choose colors. And you feel like you're randomly picking because i pay you a high pitch sound like each sounded a stern instrument piano and i just ask you to You're willing to do these talks that you suspend disbelief because you think you're going to be random and actually people very very consistent higher pitch sound maps to more luminescent colors so imagine a piano. Imagine i'm only piano. Tinkling on the high notes crashing on the low nights. And i say which one of those is pale yellow and you are much more likely to say that. The pale yellow is the pitch Maybe deep dot per police the light pitch nights this da da association but there are many many many of these associations so we have shown that if you give people identical sweetie identical candy and either has a rough surface or a smooth surface. They will think that the candy is more sour with the rough surface even though he has the identical ingredients. So and. here's something quite fun. We have.