Netco Massey, Necker Massey, Gilda Mashes discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
Angry was enjoying good sleep. We say anything about being with anyone else. He just he. This is not something you're supposed to do. You're the king and you know this you pass this. You can't do this. And so god's really ticked off because god told you not to do this. And so and so it is not his. It is not a soul separated from the body that goes back. Samuel actually comes back in bodily form fully clothed as an old man and and there's nothing to indicate that he's been either in a place of torment or in a place of reward and so hebrew bible scholars. Don't look on this as an instance of which somebody you know showing that when you die your soul goes one place or another. It's the only place by the way. We're in the hebrew bible where that kind of neck romance is performed but we do know that Some a lot of israelites thought it could be performed. Because they're all these laws against the by a budget laws doing something and so they at least think are seances going on. Something's happening but you know what it was. They were thinking is to know. This is kind of attention but that does make me wonder about this. So it's it's example of this belief in the persecution of witchcraft or or necker. Nancy why do you think it is that monotheistic religions like judaism christianity would have been so opposed to people independently practicing magic or consulting the dead. In fact i believe Correct me if i'm wrong but this is also sort of one of the horrors of the book of i knock right where these evil heavenly creatures. Come down and they teach human women how to do. Magic spells is that right. Yeah they don't mention netco massey there but they do. They do teach humans all sorts of practical things that god does a like. and so. that's that's kind of what's going on with his neck romance thing when you raising somebody. Up in a seance or or however you doing it through magical rites the ancient thought. Was that this person. It's it's not that the person's soul is living on the person's temporarily come back to life again there. Solis come back into the body and because they have died and they'd come back from the dead. They have these kind of powers ad in monotheistic religion. There's only supposed to be one superhuman power. And as god and so these other powers are threatening and people usually turned to Necker massey and other forms of magic precisely because the established religion wasn't working too well for them and so they were. They weren't learning what they need to learn. They weren't getting what they needed to get. They weren't you know. And they try and alternative. Means and in these monotheistic religions. God is a jealous god and he doesn't like it when you go to some other divine force and so that's why it's like a form of cheating almost was a form of cheating. It's like you know you go to your you. Go to your priest for advice and then you go home and get your ouija board. I mean look right. Just said don't bother. Where'd you do. People usually boards anyway. What i was a kid we used. We always great. Okay okay. so that's the view of of the ancient jews. They would of mostly believe. And of course we should acknowledge that whenever we're talking about Views describing them to groups of people. There was probably some diversity but we're talking about like the dominant views that are represented in the record right. Well it's it's a very important point because in my book i tried to show. There are in fact. Different views and hebrew bible itself. I mean you mentioned ecclesiastes and the book of daniel has a very different kind of you and so there are varieties the one variety you don't find in the hebrew bible is you die in your soul those having her house right so then what about the to turn away from ancient judaism. What about the influence of greek philosophy in like the ideas of socrates and plato and how those came through in the pagan beliefs of the roman empire. Yeah it's very important Far more important than most people realize in the earliest greek records we have they come our earliest records come from homer from the iliad and the odyssey and the earliest four hundred dante in the western tradition so gilda mashes in the ancient but in the western tradition the earliest four dante is a homer odyssey the odyssey book eleven is this going into the underworld and visiting people there including his mother and his former colleagues in the in the trojan war and and he needs all these people and the point of this description to show what is like down there and it's not good. It's not good for everybody because everybody is just down there the same. They've got their their shadows. They're called shadows. They're not even people anymore but they kind of shadows people and they've got no strength and no power no mind you can't think they can't remember. It's they can't talk it's like they. Just it's awful forever by the time you get to plato about four hundred years later so plato's riding the early fourth century bc. So you know four hundred years before. Jesus ministry plato. By the time of plato greeks. It started thinking that this idea that like everybody goes to hades and it's the same and it's boring for eternity and there's no that's not right. I mean how can you mean that somebody who is a valiant warrior who is upright and you always does the good thing and helps other people he dies and like that's it. He doesn't get anywhere award. And there's some schmuck over here like this tyrant who oppresses people just cares about his own self getting massively rich and powerful and doesn't care who he hurts the process. He dies in the punish. No that can't be how it is as greeks came up with this idea that in fact after death there rewards and punishments. We don't know of other people at the same time came up with this idea. But we find that. Most firmly in the greeks especially plato who devoted a lot of time in his dialogue in his surviving dialogues to show that the soul and the body are two different things and that the mistake people make in life is catering to their body when the important thing is their soul and so plato was pushing for philosophy. The love of nod as what philosophy Means the love of wisdom because he thought we needed attend to the needs of our inner selves especially our minds and our our mental states and our values and our views of what's right and wrong and our ethics and how live and those are the things we should be concerned about not like getting drunk all the time and having parties and having sex randomly like players. They know that is catering to your body. And the problem is if you if you giving your body's pleasures then you're gonna not pay any attention to your soul and when you die your soul is going to live on your body's going to die and so you need to make sure your souls doing well when it dies or it's going to be bad news. And so plato. Plato tells these myths of the after. He calls the myths he. I don't think he means i'm literally. But he he tells these kind of stories of people who die and they check out what it's like afterwards and those who tend to their soul have very good after lives and those who are just licentious torrential bastards. They're tortured forever. And so you get rewards and punishments. And so plato. Plato popularizes idea. It's not clear he invented it but it's found in a number of places in his dialogues especially Say in in The fado and in the republic and ended up becoming a hugely significant understanding things for the history of the.