A new story from MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)


See Cox dot com for details as we head toward the first public hearings and the impeachment of president trump. We got new testimony released least today from a senior Defense Department official and we got new reporting from Bloomberg News about how officials in the State Department and the Pentagon tried to cope with these decisions by the White House to hold up State Department assistance to Ukraine and hold up military assistance to Ukraine both on orders of the White House. Even the both of those holds appear to have been illegal on top of that we also got news about the trump White House twenty seventeen in two thousand eighteen holding up the provision of Javelin missiles to Ukraine and holding them up not at that point in exchange for some investigation. They wanted about Joe Biden. No they held up the javelin missiles in two thousand seventeen in two thousand eighteen for a different reason. This is from today's newly released testimony by State Department official Catherine kroft quote the Javelin the provisions one of the Javelin missiles in late two thousand seventeen early twentieth eighteen. Do you recall whether there was ever a holder freeze put on the Javelin answer. There was a process and there was one hold. There was one agency that put a hold on that decision question. which was that agency answer the Office of Management and Budget in the White House question? Did you understand why answer I. I understood the reason to be a policy one question. What was the policy? One answer in a briefing with Mister Mulvaney out of the office management budget the question centered around the Russian reaction question. What was the concern around? The Russian reaction answer that Russia would react negatively to the provision of the Javelin to Ukraine question. What was the reaction to that concern from the other agencies answer? I don't know that I can provide that information in an unclassified setting question okay. Is there any way to provide it. Broadly answer well. Can broadly. Say that all of the policy agencies were in support question and you mean in support of providing the Joplin's answer Kroft. Yes correct joining us now. Illinois Congressman Mike Quickly. A member of the House Intelligence Committee Sir. Thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate you being here. Thank you so. I'm drowning and transcripts but I know that you've been through all of these things live I wanted to set. Read that one setting winging up this discussion with you. Because I was struck by that sort of bald-faced testimony that the White House made the decision to hold up javelin missiles that were otherwise is due to be delivered to Ukraine and that all agencies believe should be delivered On White House concerns that Russia might mind. Here's what's questioning What's Mick Mulvaney doing making that decision when he's ahead of him be That's extraordinarily unusual. Leads me to believe that Mick Mulvaney Dany wasn't making that decision in his role. It was making that decision based on something The president was saying or doing which is more consistent with the rest of the policy in Ukraine. The reasons that they state that they're doing clearly aren't the case. Well Miss Croft goes on to suggest in her testimony that this direction and she seems to have been under the impression. That's this direction on this javelin missiles came from the president It is hard for us. I think from the vantage point that we have as has observers people who've been reading the transcripts released by the impeachment committees. It's hard for us to discern how many people were acting of their own volition and how many people were acting at the direction of the president. Is that something that you feel that you can discern from your perspective on the Intelligence Committee without being able to depose people like Mick Mulvaney people like Rick. Perry people like Rudy Giuliani. It's tough but let's look what's in the public record. You Have Malvinas admission into this whole point You have the White House called transcript. He have the Volcker text. You have all this Testimony here that you piece together and the bottom line is there's there's absolutely no way this takes place all the things that we're learning about the extortion of one of our closest allies without the president of the United States dictating adding that when these Gang of three or four go to the White House and talk about the new president in Ukraine. The President keeps saying over and over again and Talk to Giuliani so clearly. The shadow government of foreign policy. They're talking about Has set aside the established cream of our diplomatic corps so they can do the president's bidding to help him politically congressman. I think a lot of people are wondering when we should expect the public airings that start on Wednesday to be just a public version of the kind of discussions that you all have been having behind closed doors or is that we can read these transcripts of now are for Americans who have been sort of aware that this is going on watching the headlines but not following it closely should should. We expect that people tuning in Wednesday to watch those hearings Paying attention to this closely for the first time that they'll be able to follow this in basic terms starting from from square one. Are you guys picking up where you left off with. These closed door depositions. Well I think there's a reason that In a jury trial they don't just hang out depositions in a civil case. There's a lot to be said for watching these people testify. And what struck me about them was they were Clear clear they were consistent. They were compelling and I think that they showed The truth of what they were saying I think it was very hard to bump them off their game and I think that will help. A great deal is the American people watch their testimony. We're going to have to public hearings this week sir. Do you anticipate that'll be a pace going forward. We'll have a couple of hearings per week and it'll go on for a little while. Do you have any sense of the overall timeframe here look at some of this has to go with what time hi I'm allows We do have a time crunchier. Unfortunately one we didn't create because of the White House is obstruction here and the fact that so many of their witnesses were not allowed to testify. I look back at Watergate The article three of the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon dictates four times in which which Richard Nixon obstructed that investigation. We saw that happen once in one day. They obstructed four times where four people were supposed to testify testify that that did not because the White House told them not to. All of these witnesses were told not to many of them had the courage of their conviction at come forward. This is compelling compelling testimony only a small percentage of the American people had read special counsel's report on what took place with Russia Far for more people watch these hearings as they took place. I'm hoping we have the same effect here coming this week. Carson quickly member the Intelligence Committee Sir. Good luck this week. Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you all right much more tonight..

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