Berlin, Israel, Germany discussed on The Tel Aviv Review
I will never go back to Germany. I'm clinging onto this hate or did that part of my identity that sees Germany as an other as we said in the introduction. You also interested in questions of gender This perspective Shed any light on this specific group in terms of women etc. Well so when I was doing the interviews there I noticed that Jewish Israeli women particularly single that moved to Berlin had a very different story One of my interviewees that moved to Berlin in her late thirties divorced. No children said the first time that when I came here I finally realized that I'm normal. And she said when she was living in the heart of Berlin in a huge loft with seven German now in Israel that might sound very chaotic about German and Germany. That is very organized I mean. Even family sometimes shared these Vega these Apartments and Yes you sh- and she said she lived in animal show before and she didn't realize that there is a continuum in which some women are married. Some are single and have children and some are just single without children or live in partnerships so This was something that if we look at Israeli society. One of the entering tickets to Israeli society is motherhood and somebody that chooses a woman chooses not to have children or just life happens. And you don't end up having children There is a need to explain that because there is a policing that happens everywhere. All the time without even people being aware That that is happening so moving away from that Berlin offers Israeli women Again single Israeli women An opportunity to just get away from this social norms. Why do men not experience the same thing in Israel? Yeah at or an or and or single men without children who moved to Berlin because they are much outside of that grid of policing here in Israel to begin with so going there just kind of much so basically the ticket to Israel is the what you called an entry. Ticket is is a woman based motherhood but it doesn't really apply to men who decide not to have children or who life doesn't somehow bring the children with men. There is no biological clock right with idea. Is that you're always. There's always civility exactly. Yes yes there's always a possibility while for women there is it's much limited and there is much more pressure and what. I found there. Is that moving to Berlin for these single Israeli women especially when they were under thirties and forties was almost an act of resistance against these Social norms and these expectations of having a very hetero normative lifestyle even that that exist even Tel Aviv So yeah I'm working right now on an article about that and I'm going over my interviews with women and this is some of the Conclusions that are coming up and they express it like that. This is a sort of resistance against the sort of conservative oppressive conservative family locked into a traditional family structure kind of society in Israel. Well no no. None of them said the word resistance. That's actually my Formulation about that. But they would they have expressed is a lot of Disdain an extortion with the pressure that the experience tier and then moving to Berlin with all of the hardships and with all of the difficulties of going and doing that alone without support still. It's something that They feel it's that it's a relief to be away. Is this is indicative of a bigger immigration pattern whereby all of the humanist liberal minded cosmopolitans find each other in whatever corner of the world whether it's Berlin or some other city and all the hardcore nationalists stay in their nations wherever they are and then the world just sort of self segregates into major urban centers where people have share values and they all elect you know leaders that they think suit their values and everybody else elect some version of Donald trump and happily ever after. Is that the rule discussing Again academic you know. I have to complicate this even what I said scary to me. No no no because people immigrate for different motivations my my my original Question when I started this research was why do people emigrate and then they realized it doesn't really matter why immigrant the question is what happens when they reach their destination so people emigrate also for economic reasons. And if you look at again Woah London. A New York San Francisco. La There is a huge Israeli And clave there But the right-wing so the motivation for immigration is different and wanting to make money or or Silicon Valley. Better your economic situation. We see these groups as well. What is unique about the Berlin immigration is what was created on the ground once? This tiny tiny group reached their Trion Reach a conclusion by asking you whether you think that immigration is reading immigration to Berlin as a case in point in a way shedding light on immigration writ large or is it really an exception to the rule that allows us to You know that doesn't allow us to make any Drawing conclusions and come to conclusions. I think it's a complete exception to the rule and I think it's fascinating what is happening there and just I'll demonstrate Y Y Y say that so with Israelis that are moving to Berlin. The location the geographical location is very loaded. Right I mean we had the Nazis. Starting their their final solution there and the city was divided into two into east and West. And as if it's the vengeance of the West was applied there in terms of of punishing Germany. And then we have these rallies that are coming there and what they're doing they're right. Now is almost drying two vectors. Culturally one is to Jewish Berlin before the Second World War which was a very big cultural centre with Hebrew language production of books the publication houses for Instance Schalken was a publishing house. Then before coming to Israel and So they're connecting to that and there are some galleries that are opening just imitate which was where a lot of that activity took place as a way to revive the Hebrew Or the Jewish Culture Hebrew speaking Jewish culture from the beginning of the century. That's one vector that's going to pass and another vector is as if Well not as if but when Israelis are moving to Berlin. They're realizing that they're actually not European these Ashkenazi Israelis and I would say as Interesting analogy researcher. Also not white. There are seen by the Germans as Orientales hike from the east. Eighty percent of them are. Yeah they're not really they're not yes yes completely. So what we saw. I mean what we saw there and I particularly saw over and over. Is that this connecting with other refugees. That are coming or other. Immigrants that are coming from the Middle East so a lot of joint project cultural events in which we see Syrian refugees. I mean I saw Syrian refugees coming and joining project or talks about Study no no. No no no Refugees in Israel so a lot a lot of piece work that has happened writes some of these Israelis who rediscovered the Middle Eastern identity. I'll take taken aback by it. Because growing up in Israel there was sort of old to that they're not part of the broader Middle East Democratic Western European outpost in Villa and the jungle in the jungle exact lane and then and then they moved there and they realize that actually no they see us as the jungle as themselves as well. They realized that the must much more middle easterns and they had three. Yes yes and actually they have in common with somebody. From Iran from Syria from Lebanon is much more than what they would have in common with the German in terms of the cultural warmth in terms of the food in terms of. Would you be invited to somebody's house or not? We take that for granted that you are invited. Somebody's house and Germany. No it's one of the biggest gestures of intimacy if a German friend would invite you home. Of course it often takes going abroad and becoming an ex pat becoming a stranger to appreciate the people who are close to you but not so close to you at home. I mean I remember living abroad in very obscure part of the world where all of a sudden I met some Palestinians and they said I said where are you from and they said Palestine I said. Oh I'm from Israel and we looked at each other and we were we just. We were happy to meet each other. There was like before we restrained ourselves. That was the first emotion that was clear because we were in this very obscure. The world is that is that normal dynamic This is something that happens. I think this being in a neutral territory that would happen also in New York and indeed go away. I mean abroad or away from Israel away from that ten zone where you are in conflict The conflict basically informs your life But in Berlin. It's there's almost as if the next step is also taken because there are a lot of of tiny tiny population. A lot of cultural project that are happening together With a group of maximum twenty thousand people that we say Jala VI- Doctor Dusko and thank you for being on the show. Thank you for inviting me. And thanks to shell or a producer and again to the German government for their generous support for sponsoring this series on Israel's relationship with the EU and European countries now a request many or most of you. Listen to us on the apple podcast APP and we'd like to ask you to please consider writing us a review it's in the ratings and reviews section. We take all kinds critical supportive. We take worshiping reviews. Anything you like..