Conoco, Carlos Pena, Ben Yeah discussed on Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
Then you don't Ben Yeah. You can't count on any future championships mariners today I don't know that's. Probably about your cardboard cut it. Yeah. Spirit into it. Yeah I'm trying to imbue it with the the essence of which is very sassy. Williams says I. Really enjoyed listening to episode fourteen eighty seven. Were you recounted some guys and would like to suggest a random effectively weld player of the podcast episode segment. It was really interesting to hear Ben and Sam Recount. Paulk Mirko rate, after Carlos Pena and after I, reflected on each of their careers I was gobsmacked by the statistical comparison of the longtime fan, favorite veterans, stalwart versus the guy who kind of had the failed top prospect label, and just became a generally professional hitter to wit. Wit and then he shares some of their stats, which in some cases look very similar so career, opium plus painel, one seventeen Conoco one eighteen krier baseball reference were twenty five point one for pain, twenty seven point seven for Conoco and other stats playing time stats very far apart so pain yet games fourteen, ninety, three Conoco twenty to sixty eight at bats, forty, nine, forty, nine for eighty, three, ninety, three, for Conoco so the question continues I know it is becoming gross to find players by their. Their contracts but Conoco nearly one hundred thirty million dollars, his career, while opinion did not break fifty million dollars for similar production over nearly five fewer full seasons most interestingly, perhaps painel was worth a whopping negative. One Fan graphs were over his final two seasons in the big leagues while Conoco total negative four point, one fan crafts war with five different seasons coming in the negative granted, two of those were, as he was getting his feet in the bigs in two of them at the end, but. But even still it just had me wondering if you could choose the career. PALCA narcos spread over that number of games versus the career of Carlos Pena, presuming it as all with your team. Do you take Pena with pain? Painter? Be Remembered more fondly if he did play his whole career with one team. Would people remember that he was worth more baseball reference were in fan. Grass were game. He played then Conoco, oh? Gosh, I think you WANNA. Avoid wherever possible the fail top prospect label. I think that that while very unfair, because we heap these expectations on on young players and we don't. We don't do a good of like updating our snapshot of those expectations over time. I think that there are very few things that baseball fans dislike more than failed top prospects like the the the sense that something that like promise was stolen from them, which is so bizarre because I'm sure that like Carlos Spaniel, witches was different to rain like no one cares about more than he does. But I think that there's something about that. You know like talked again. We're just GONNA. Do Marriage stuff I guess like talked. About Dustin. And, he had a worse career. So that's kind of a mean comp to Carless, but I don't know I I think you WanNa. Avoid being quote. Unquote fail top prospect. I'd rather be overrated than underrated tests rate. Conoco is beloved. He's like a local institution local icon. Some people even think of him as like a hall of fame caliber player I don't quite but I. Think a lot of people perceive him that way, and he's really well liked and loved, and I think that is partly because of his skills as a player, and partly just because he was such a institution, and I think if you're. You're with one team. Your whole career of obviously safe that helps and I think part of it is probably just the skills. The way that certain skills are valued so like Conoco was pretty far inferior fielder and base runner, and so that's a lot of why may be. Wars are closer than one would think, and maybe also the offensive environment to and Conoco was you know doing a lot of his offense of damage during a really high offense era, and that could be part of it, too, so I think it's maybe just that goes back to baseball card. Stats are more impressive than Pena's and that. Broke through as late as he did, and he had some great experiences to, and you know he kind of came out of nowhere, and it must be fun to come out of nowhere especially, when you have been labeled something of a bust to then finally breakthrough and justify that hype and show that no, you really are great. That must be nice in a way, too, and if you really had to struggle and you became a. A journeyman almost and then finally you made could that that must be fulfilling in a way also, but I mean I'd rather make more money all else being equal together play longer right so i. don't know what the pain yet type career really has going for it over the Kinetico type career other than the fact, that opinion was better on a per game basis, so yeah, we should may be recognized. That painting was better than. than he softened given credit for it, but in terms of the actual experience for the player I would definitely opt for the show. And when you're you move around like that. There's no one to really when you do. Have that weird season where you sort of live up to what people were expecting. There's not really there's no wonder really claim you in a way that you would want like I would imagine that of all the. The Fan bases that Curtis opinion play for race fans are probably the kindest to him because he had his could years of them, but it gets not. He's probably not their guy, right. They don't list him I do wonder this is a thought that I don't know if it's a good one or not. Using that non baseball fans have a better impression of Carlos up because of how he's characterized in the movie version of money. Yeah I don't know like. I feel like he's respected and liked as a person. And I think he was seen as a leader on those raise teams finally got good, and won a pennant, and he was like a great clubhouse guy in all of that, so yeah, but I guess if you're someone who's only read or watched moneyball..