University Of Maryland, Michelle Gal, Ed Snider discussed on The TalentGrow Show


A girl she is the director of the Ed Snider the Center for Enterprise and markets at the University of Maryland. Which is my Alma Mater? She is now my surge. University of Maryland professor on the talent grow show I was Dr Ed Lock Episode Ninety Five and also Fester Michelle Gal Fan on episode one thirty three and Professor Auger Wall conducts research on the evolution of industries firms and individual careers as fostered by the twin engines of innovation and enterprise her scholarship uses an interdisciplinary or disciplinary lens to provide insights on strategic innovation for new venture creation and for firm renewal are teaching and engagement in gross oriented firms help business professionals advanced through personal leadership develop win-win relationships and create a virtuous spiral between their aspirations and abilities as I love that welcome to the show Sherie good afternoon and thank you so much for having me be part of your show. I really appreciate your taking the time and I look forward talking with you about leadership and all of the things that you bring to the world from your perspective but before we do always have our guests described their professional professional journey very briefly. Where did you start. And how did you end up where you are today but I started off as an economist. you know got my PhD economic sense for the first seven or eight years of my research and teaching career. I was actually in an economics department and as you already read from my bile I ended up studying adding the evolution of industries but very quickly I realized it's not industries that make decisions as they evolve and grow and even die. It's really the firms and not even the firms within them but the individuals who through their own personal aspirations because they are leveraging abridging their knowledge they are the ones that create new firms grow them renew them as a the environment dictates tate's and requires sometimes even create their own environment and so those were the things that really fascinated me so I often think of myself in my journey starting starting off fullest isn't economists then transitioning into strategic management then transitioning into strategic entrepreneurship and by that had I don't mean just new farms and small farms I also mean existing thumbs and leaders within them that are looking to change and grow and then finally at this stage of my career pink about how enterprising people whether they are high school students enrolled in our South Program for instance. That's ongoing doing right now all the way through the executive. Mba as that I interact with Hawkins Day leverage that own personal leadership themselves for the team said they were acquitted and for the organizations that they choose to associate themselves with and this is exactly the intersection between your interests and mine which is why why we get along so well and why I knew that once we spoke some more and get to know each other a little bit better than I read some more of your writing I wanted to bring you onto the show and share your perspective have because you bring a lot of debts but also press as you describe to leadership and on that point you know as you said you know Michelle and Ed to people that are scholars that have been affiliated with the University of Maryland are still are and of course good friends of mine. You know a lot of the personal leadership aspect comes from the organizational behavior you know industrial psychology perspective which is exactly what Michelle and Ed have focused on abused in my own journey I have gravitated more towards that but I also retain the economic slash strategic element so I like the think about it as bringing both psychological and economic lenses together because you know I ultimately am fundamentally sleep passionate about upward mobility but I don't define upward mobility just in economic terms but also in psychological and intellectual groped. It's Oh okay well. I want to talk more about that than what upward mobility so intellectual psychological and Economic Growth Your Oh when you think about growth do you think and you said the word upward to me defines a very specific direction obviously and a lot of times. I know you you experience this. Probably an I talk to people all the time about career growth and direction as a leader also helping your please create a pass for development and so often people are very hyper focused on like the ladder climbing the ladder or in terms of a firm as I struggle with my own firms arms vision and and where I wanna go you know there is the sense that you're supposed to just keep growing and growing and growing and I believe that's not the case and it's is not always just up or it's not always just biggers better. What do you think about that. I agree so when I'm saying affordability. I don't necessarily mean either linea or ladder. Climbing in fact dot stresses me out just thinking you know honestly when I'm thinking about about upward mobility. It's very simple. It is about knowing what your priorities are again. This is one of the reasons why the Ladder Climbing Linnea visualization all upward mobility. I think you know detract from the richness of experience that ultimately ultimately lead you to words the Joni being the destination and when I think about journeys I don't necessarily think of upward climbs lines as much as unfolding this stuff and these vistas could be sometimes economic focus sometimes intellectual focus and sometimes same psychological focus and as you're going on one direction. It may very well be that you take a back seat on other actions. I'll give you an example of my own career. Okay okay. I told you that I was an economist and then I transitioned into strategic management you know I had promotion and tenure the your I switched alleged organizations from University of Central Florida to University of Illinois and I gave up both tenure and promotion to start off off as an assistant professor in a brand new discipline now. If you know anything about academia you know that tenure is highly coveted yes and so many people would look at me and say increase. You're giving up tenure. You're giving up security to start all the way of fresh but for me that was not downward moment so yes on the one round you could say I gave up promotion so it's not a career climb a ladder rung in fact I've come down two steps but for me that was for mobility the reason why that was the case was because I realized that my interest were more aligned in and businesses and in management and not in economics and I needed to be true to my aspirations I needed to be true to my own personal final growth mindset if you will and so Ben Afford. It was also an element of yes. There's an element of risk. There's an element of uncertainty not but I was in gracing that given that I knew what was the ten show achievement that I could make up there so in the long Iran. It ended up being hugely aboard mobile. Even though in the short run people would say that I took two steps back and that risk aversion Asian I think drives so many people it's interesting you focus on entrepreneurship and innovation and both of those disciplines or whatever you want to categorize prize them as both of those require a certain tolerance of risk or maybe even an appetite for risk because no innovation as possible and know entrepreneurship. It was possible if you want everything to be perfect and no failure to be a possibility if I may be frame that I actually think I'm highly risk averse us right now. Why am I saying that I'm highly risk averse and yet I'm doing all of these things about giving promotion and Kenya because I think that the reframing naming off it is you want to minimize everything that you can and mitigate all of the potential things that could go wrong right but you also want to be open to gaining and loaning new knowledge so for me. I don't think in terms of risk as much as I'm very comfortable. We'll making decisions in uncertain environments which is different from risk now. What do I mean by that. Uncertainty Fundamentally Mentally Comes from incomplete knowledge about all of the things that can happen but let's face it. Life itself is uncertain right and I think I think that the notion that innovators and enterprising people are actually risk-tolerant risk loving is missing the fact that they're to minimize any known risks but at the same time are very comfortable making decisions where the the future is not fully known and deterministic so they just move towards the decision more willingly than some other people who would just waiting to have all the ducks in a row which is technically impossible before making any kind of move right so it is that comfort level that even if in some sense you fail. Oh you're still gaining a lot of knowledge so failure in one dimension may still mean success in another level so let me give you another another example right. I often tell particularly mid level executives that feel like they're being tracked in their current position or they feel like they're not necessarily growing but at the same time are a little scared about giving the security of their current job ju venture new into a new position right because it's also the devil you know was the w downright all of those aspects that come into play and I often tell them mm-hmm. You know you can think about all of the things that you don't know that may go wrong but you also know all of the things right now that you're stymied diomede by frustrated by not waking up with a spring in your step. So how much better off would you be to at least give yourself permission to explore and so even if it may be that you have you know you're in a job where you feel like you're not being as successful as you can or even sailing the question out there is what is a better fit for me and so to be proactive about knowing what are your abilities. What are your aspirations ends and then how do you go about identifying your priorities given this and then how do you seek win-win relationships with other people may your creating value value and they're creating value all of that requires a lot of mental todd in energy and action but none of them are being couched risk dems. It's an action a year in your description and I think I hear this and I agree with it that it's like an experiment because there's things you don't know but you know what you have now is not necessarily ideal than it's better to take mitigated or thoughtful addition calculated action and try it as an experiment experiment recognizing that you'll gain more input about oh well that wasn't either for these reasons and that just sort of calibrates you towards the right thing one instep time and you know. I really appreciated the fact that you use the word experimentation because if I think about mitigating uncertainty and making decisions under uncertainty as really either you know trying to resolve the missing gaps in your knowledge you can really do it in two ways and I encourage people to do both one is experiment yourself but the other is share knowledge seek knowledge so not everything has to be reinvented again and again right you can benefit and this is where I see a huge amount of value add in a relationships. Shen ships where you're bringing together complementary people but also to the extent that I may not know the first thing that I should do again in the interest of mitigating time costs and going down patch that are going to lead to nowhere is ask so again Dan for this particular mid level executive that feels like they're stuck in a position rights dream. What is it that you WanNa do and then go ask the person that's already Eddie successful in that area. Take them for coffee SAT. You Know Blue Sky thinking what is it that you would do differently you know so it gathering information and experiment these other two actions through which you can make very good decisions in an uncertain environment. Yeah that's awesome. Um and you know so you get mentors rather than trying to go it alone. One of the things that I read you write a great column for Forbes and I was reading. Some of your back. Articles was very hard for me to choose ones that I wanted to talk with you about. There's so many good ones but one that seems relevant here. A little bit relevant. Here is this idea of social comparison because we are each on a different pass and it's very hard to compare ourselves truly like apples to apples when we look at someone else but there's some value in comparing ourselves faust others and also some detriment and envy comes up and you wrote an article about this how it is really important for people to en- leaders especially to recognize recognize that there's potential positive and negative emotions that get triggered when we compare ourselves so what's important for leaders to know about the difference between envy and social comparison so social comparison as you just said. Is You know you and I are socially together in our network and so it's very natural for you and I to look at each other and say you know Leli. I'm really you know you've got this great podcast on talents grow and you're doing so well and there can be a part of me that I'm very very established in the academic round. One of the things that I do want to do is reach out out to people that are actually doing the things that I research and talk about which is enterprising people right and you're already talking to them. Wow how greatest greatest outright and I can also be envious. You've got this great successful gas you know. How can I do that too or on the other hand. You may feel the same about me that you know you've got this folks column that you're writing regularly on Europe Faculty member. We can both compare so there could be areas that I feel like I could learn from you. You have so envy or hope and inspiration our emotions that get triggered when when someone has something that you aspire to or desire having yourself but you personally don't have right envy is is really a negative emotion. It's about feeling sentiment you have it. I don't but the same social comparison can cause me to feel hoping been inspiration wow Hilali. You've done this you know. What can I learn from you. Can you share with me what successful about it and then of course your benevolence downward social comparison. I have something that Russia doesn't have so you could either feel jealousy. You know the word jealous lower comes comes from the fact that I don't WanNa lose something that I have to someone else like I said he wouldn't tallahassee right so this download comparison can either trigger jealousy and fear on on your part Oregon's trigger gratitude and benevolence and innovative spirit that wow I really value what I have..

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