A Dual Engine Flameout in a Cessna Citation II

There I Was...
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Bruce. I'd like to start with <hes> with you and jerry. The situation that we're gonna talk about is one that i don't think i've ever i heard about before and that is a dual engine flameout and a cessna citation and what we would refer to as <hes> what's commonly called a dead stick landing we sl were we're quite alarmed with the situation that you guys were presented with and <hes> we <hes> helped move the industry to put together. Some protection measures that other other pilots might not find the same. <hes> incident happened to them but bruce if you <hes> if you don't mind you jerry. Can you set us up with just a start the day i know it was a a flight probably a relatively routine flight from naples to niagara falls and do you mind just a setting it up and tell tell us the story sure. Absolutely we started that morning. As any other day we started at the base upon gorda they loaded up her plane reflected it just as we normally would not expect anything nathan law the norden ordinary fueled up enough fuel to get to naples knowing that we had to go later to niagara down to naples picked up our patient. We topped topped off with fuel from there. We loaded up and it was just like any other day. We loaded up. We're in the plane and we're at altitude cruise along at three five zero. Oh so far nothing's happened so i'll back up just a little bit airtrek. Your mission is <hes> patient mobility is that is this a fairly typical <hes> run for you guys. Can you talk a little bit about airtrek and what you guys do airtrek an air ambulance business and we've been in <hes> transporting patients <hes> <hes> this was a pretty typical flight <hes> where we started out of our base. We've positioned to another airport in this case naples and we generally go out of here so that we can meet landing weight at the other at the next airport so they put about forty two hundred pounds of fuel along here so each of the airplanes that were involved in this incident <hes> fueled with about four hundred fifty gallons of fuel here repositioned to naples where our medical staff goes into the hospital picks up the patient and then bring them back out while they're doing that the the the pilots post-flight and then reprieve flight the airplane and add what additional fuel that they need it that that place in this particular case naples and then they depart and go generally nonstop to their destination which in this case was niagara falls for these two gentlemen okay got it so oh fuel up at <hes> at punta gorda very sure short hop down to naples to pick up your patient something that's routinely done pretty commonly done and and is <hes> is punta gorda the home base for <hes> for airtrek. Yes it is okay all right so somewhere. You're you're familiar with operations. This put the fuel on board a lot of consideration into your weight and balance in your performance and and the things you think about when you're going <hes> that long distance in these these kinds of <hes> airplanes and now <hes> bruce you've mentioned that <hes> you're route of flight was from naples to <hes> niagara falls and i notice as i track that out here <hes> on the four flight looking at <hes> identifier alpha papa fox to india alpha golf and part of that flight <hes> you're about probably twenty five or thirty miles over the atlantic ocean. That's correct. I don't remember specifically that day if they give us direct right out normally it's it's more like <hes> they send you over. Lakeland ish area and then direct but we were at some point as much as twenty miles offshore. If i remember correctly yeah got it and so so far so good you're climbing up to flight level three five. Oh you're in a <hes> citation to. I believe is that right. That's correct okay citation citation to great performing airplane. I'm also typed in a in a citation <hes> three <hes> five to five type rating and so <hes> they're just great great performance airplanes. The citations are great for the missing. You're using it for the so far so good nothing unusual you're cruising altitude and then <hes> would you mind what happened next ex- sure we're in normal cruise. Everything's going as as expected and you know we've already. We're on step. We've picked up speed. We're an hour and twenty in very uh routine nothing nothing and i find myself fidgeting with the number one engine trying to get the end one fan speed where i wanted it and it was kind of reacting a little different than normal but not enough to be alarming not enough to even make note of <hes> after seeing me fidget aged with for a bit jerry actually asked me. What percentage are you looking for and i'm like well you know hundred and three percent ever take you know i just like being there and <noise> <noise> as we're messing with it. It's just kind of acting a little funny and i said to jerry you know i'm gonna pull this back to about ninety percent see what it does and then i'll put it back up because i just wanted to see how it just felt abnormal not alarming but abnormal so we pulled the number one engine back to about ninety percent of course it's it's pulled back without issue no problem and then when i tried to roll it back up towards the one hundred percent it went down to eighty nine eight eighty seven and continued to school back from there. That's when we <hes> said okay well. It looks like we're losing the number one engine. Let's ask for lower now that time jerry called up and ask a._t._c. if we could get one five fifteen thousand and about where were you at this point. <hes> geographically were you. Were you feet wet over the east coast florida or were you. We were probably closer to a beam savannah out over the water. We wear we're feet wet. I think we're beyond florida just just somewhere right there around florida georgia in that area got it and for our listeners not that familiar with the with jets jets and fan speeds. It's it's not uncommon to run in your in. One fans speed it over one hundred percent right. Can you just talk to us a little bit about the difference between in one and into your fan speeds and the things you're looking at for a jet engine sure of course just like a and flying. J got a <hes> if you look in the book. You've got a certain r._p._m. Setting that you're looking for we have a similar thing. It's just based on the n one fan speed. That's basically the r._p._m. Of the front of the front half of the engine <hes> <hes> in this case the book reads the charts performance charts at minus twenty degrees celsius which is what it is up there at thirty five thousand we're able to run the fans of two hundred and four percent so i don't particularly myself like to just hold them at a hundred and four that doesn't give me any leeway if it sneaks up on me because it gets colder so i usually answer closer to one hundred and three percent okay got it great and so <hes> you mentioned that it didn't feel right but it was more that you weren't really feeling anything. Anything is more. You're just you're cruising at altitude monitoring your engine instruments in your cross-check and you're noticing that in one just isn't quite where you want it right. Yeah yeah your typical response on the thrust levers when you push it forward a little bit you expect it to bump up a tenth of a percent or if you pull a back you know you'd expect a tenth of a percent and it really it wasn't reacting the way you'd expect everything was perfectly smooth and there was no actual feel and the butter meter but the reaction of the percentage percentage to the thrust setting wasn't what was expected. Yeah wasn't quite just based on your experiences. Just seems like a little bit of a head scratcher right and this isn't quite right or we're actually had we actually had a pretty good split on the throttles by then you know where they the number two where it should be number. One is actually above it and we weren't anywhere near the same r._p._m. Okay yeah so that's looking different to physically the throttles are are separated. Were typically. They're matched up. You might have a fraction the difference between the the number one engine number two engine throttles but for the most part they're pretty close together in this case. You're seeing that is a pretty good physical difference. In were you have those <hes> so that's another kind of this right yeah okay and so <hes> so you pull the engine back <hes> the engine rolls back but then when you go oh to push it up it doesn't roll back up and actually starts winding down on you and so obviously that's alarming you know now. You've got a problem with the number one engine and you're we're at thirty five thousand feet walk supllies. What would you do from there well. We know what thirty five thousand with a single engine. We're not going to be able to maintain that altitude so the first thing before even even figuring out. What else do we just know. We need to go down so we've asked for one five fifteen thousand. They granted that to us fairly quickly <hes> within seconds. We've determined that this engine is probably not gonna come back to come back to life so we've asked for <hes> radar vectors to an airport at this case at this time. We just asked for an airport a large airport with nice weather. They suggested three of them. One of them was savannah sounded great. Yeah yeah we started punching in the information for savannah into the g._p._s. checking the weather check and runways of course as suggested. It seemed like a perfect fit for needs it was within within a reasonable distance and we started headed that direction and so when the <hes> jury when the engine started rolling back when you when you post it forward and you actually got a roll back on the r._p._m. And it kept rolling back so you knew it was eventually going towards zero and at that point had you still not had any kind of <hes> unusual indications. <hes> you know <hes> fuel. Indications are low fuel pressure or anything like that yet. No that was interesting. The fuel-filter light did not go on and so we weren't sure what we had here. If we had a mechanical problem what it was but other than stayed very smooth smooth just was rolling back and we never went zero <hes> the engines div returning anywhere between twenty four and twenty eight percent yeah interesting okay which makes sense right if it as long as he can freely windmill. It's not gonna go to zero percent. It's gonna it's gonna wind mill. <hes> do some air pressure in there but yet <hes> so you know and you could you feel the thrust

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