Let's kick things off. I think maybe a good way would be to talk a little bit about the security journey. That brought you to where you are today and a little bit about. What prompted you to kick off the the research you did about rethinking. The human factor. Okay so Very briefly on in by joining the industry are quite a different group to majority. So i think you originally trained in lieu on marketing and offer about ten years. I a chemical some judy. Let me joining the industry. I not been here for over twenty years now. So i'd like to think of getting something bright or maybe baby just people too big skins anyway. So i think the next tonight keeping me really helped me Working with meyer would have direct set find. Also all kinds is a because my legal training because my mom confronting because my finance training i was able to have conversations with honest straight through the marketing director and the the company lawyer actor Unrelated why information security or something they should be and this was a really powerful tool tool the i team designers today speaking because he was a language that they to be trained in so i want them to be would understand what it meant monarchy in perspective i would help translate the into a meaningful benefits to jewel. Been some business. That health of his majority might were will looking years with ran. Jonas plants are held. The risk is too that Was into this. And the one with dixon catalan possibility. And and we would then look a little bit different psycho that they would say that one hockey and then gave the people. I was at no great love. Who responsible controls. Give them something. So they like controls and design in policies procedures. And he's not interested in. That was the first point. Why side you realize the importance of the human aspect really here because we would ryan green policies will say. This is our expectation that we'd have employees use a alessi or safai policy. Whatever some weaknesses. Technically i a fair amount that we we really relying on people who do as we also and regularly week would see that people wouldn't necessarily do we also very restrained because then the geneva thinking on We invested all this in having around chiens bringing so maybe also elements of security various vendors. And yet we're still having this reoccurring problem we sorted. The problem still exists at as a finance Try and says no thinking the return on investment on that stop shop and okay so i thought realize when you start the question devalue what it is and and really focus my mind on ruled work. I doing devon's risking. It really comes down. Whether or not people choose to behave policy and seven years kicked on a research paw which i told the reason he became a lethal pretty much every aspect of what i do information security including that we cool at the convention less