How to Build Habit Forming Voice Products with Nir Eyal, Wall Street Journal Bestselling Author of 'Hooked'
Does your interest in psychology and Technology Really Begin? Frio quality the first Baltic. The psychology portion. So for me I think you know I have to trace it back all the way to my adolescence. Believe it or not I used to be clinically obese at one point in my life and I was always a overweight. It's actually an obese. Kid I remember. My mom took me to the doctor and he had this chart. It's okay. Here's Normal. Weight jeers overweight. And here's you. You're like well into the obese category and I remember it from an early age and I remember it my years years. That food seemed to have this power over me that I felt like it controlled me and I was really fascinated by that particularly. I was fascinated by the marketing. And how a product's design Like how they designed the the cereal boxes look down all characters. Look down to the kids. We catch is why was always fascinated by that kind of stuff and to some extent. I blamed it for my obesity but over time what I discovered that was rootlets. That blaming the food companies didn't serve me that what serve me was learning really why I was overeating and I wish I could tell you. I was over eating because McDonald's made delicious hamburgers but really I was waiting for the same reason. The vast majority of people who are overweight or overweight is because we eat our feelings right. That's why I was over eating in my case I was over eating because I was sad. I over eating because I felt lonely. I was over eating because I was mad at myself and felt guilty and shameful because I had overeat and so it wasn't until I broke that cycle and understood the real reasons why I was doing things against my best interest that I overcame this problem. I still have to watch it. You know I have a tendency to overeat especially emotionally. But it wasn't until I face that fact and stop blaming things outside of myself that I finally got control over this and so I think it was that same fascination when I discovered this new tendency to over consume not food but information that when we got these amazing devices I became fascinated with how good they are changing our behaviors and so my first instinct was. Wow we could use this for an amazing power for good. And that's why I wrote my first book hooked which was all about how to build habit forming products. Because what I did. The book published in Two Thousand Fourteen so I had a few years to learn from companies like facebook and Google twitter instagram. And what's happened slack? I wanted to learn from them. And then democratize these techniques so that everyone out there could build products that build healthy habits and people's wise and that's exactly what the book is done over the past five six years now. The book has made a an impacted every conceivable industry from fitness APPs using the hooked model to get people hooked to exercise. The way sick does a case study that I put in the second edition of the book companies like cahoots the world's largest educational software. They just went public. They actually found company using the hope model to get kids. Hooked onto this educational product. I was an investor in Ankara a product that does in your space the audio spaces the product that use the book model beautifully. They gave me a call. They told me the hooked model. I said it's amazing. I want invest. Let me put money into it. And they just sold to spotify for report over well over a hundred million dollar exit spotify and so the idea behind. The first book is really. How can we get? People hooked to healthy habits. But given that I've spent over a decade studying the psychology of how to Bill Habits I also know the Achilles heel these berry engaging sometimes habit forming products and so we can use the same information in reverse. We can use it to help us break the bad habits that don't serve us and that's indestructible is all about. Yeah well thank you for sharing that. I didn't know that I think got like you said it's not just for businesses. I think people a lot of people have an issue with over eating and especially during this time when everyone's at home so it's a weekend golfer this and you had said in your book that forty percent of what we do is out of habit. So what does this mean how? Our habits actually triggered yes. Oh habits are in adaptive traits of our species. Many species have habits habits are defined as these impulses to do a behavior with little or no conscious thought. And it's about half of what you do. Every single day is prompted by these impulses to behavior out of little or no conscious purely out of habit and so the idea behind habit forming products is what if we could use those same habits for good so it's not just the social media companies in the gaming companies that are able to change our behavior. We can use these same exact Habit forming techniques deeper psychology to help us build good habits life. Yeah and the reason I wanted to have you on. This show is because they had found an article that someone had posted on your website using the hooked model for Amazon Alexa. And so we are in the voice technology space on this show today and a lot of feedback and when. I said we were going to have to show. Some people are like oh I love him. I've used as not offer my voice technology product. And it's working and so again. I want to congratulate you on that. That's music to my ears. Is the hell people building products out there right. It shouldn't be the game companies and the big tech companies that use these techniques. All of us should use these techniques for good reasons right for to help. People change their lives with healthy habits. Ed So exciting and so for those. That are they've heard of it or they're kind of like okay. Well how do I use this again? Because it's a voice tech space in this show. I'd love for you to kind of take us through the hooked model system. But if you're able to not only described as kind of four pieces but also how it could work for voice. Technology may be given example. Whether you know aren't are kind of a made up example so that people could kind of understand how they could use it in a great way for their own thing. Sure yes so I take your bank. If there's a habit forming technology that we want to tackle is there something in particular like I wonder what makes this that so habit-forming is there something you from the voice technology space as a whole the challenges? It's like more and more people are having smart speakers in their home. More PEOPLE WANNA be using it. Consumer adoption has increased. But there's still a lot of frustration consumers where maybe it's not working as well. It's not answering their questions. People use at one time. And so it's idea. How do we get people to understand how to use technology more as a habit in a good way in a way that helps them be more efficient in this day and age germ-free helping businesses music and so it's always that question of how do I get people aware of the scholar? I but that they'll keep using every day and again in an ethical. Great way right you know so. Let's do this one and we break down. A I think a very successful habit forming products. And then we're going to look at where I think there's some deficiencies when it comes to the voice interface when it comes to the skills on the Alexa so that article that you read broke down. What makes the Amazon Alexa product? So habit me and I think as a device itself it curfew displays the hook model. And that's what this article was written about. Somebody took the hooked model and wanted to attack down to wait what makes Amazon Alexa habit forming. And and how does it fit to this model and certainly does and they were going to look at some of the skills election why I think some of those are not habit-forming but I will say before we dive in? It's clear to me that forming habits as someone who is creating a product in or out of the voice space is increasingly important today. Because what we've seen over the past decade is that the interface has shrank. It's shrunk down so we went from desktop member. We all had big old desktop computers on our work and that went to laptops so the screen got smaller and then it went to mobile interfaces so now the spring is even smaller and now it's on wearable devices rights and now the screen is even smaller and now the interfaces even disappeared altogether right so now these are the interface right. The ear buds in our ears or the Amazon Alexa. There is no screen anymore and so the opportunity to trigger people with what we call external triggers. Right the things on the screen the the by now click here. Do this do that. The external triggers. There's just less real estate to trigger people with those external triggers. And so that what that means is we have to trigger people with internal triggers that if people don't remember to use your APP right if your APP isn't on the home screen they're Gonna. Forget it's there if your skill if you're Amazon. Alexa skill isn't top of mind. If it's not a habit people don't use it and so it's more than ever important for us to create these habits because there are fewer opportunities to trigger people with these external triggers right. There just isn't a screen is disappearing jennings becoming so ubiquitous that there isn't the interface to have a flashing Pinger. Ding telling you to do anymore. It has to be prompted out of habit.