"Same Harris. Aw to round two parents you know I imagine you. You Y hope that you run into this problem you might not because if you're superior intelligence but last night it crossed my mind mine like hey maybe I should listen to Sam Nice. I interview so that I don't just stupidly. Asked him the exact same questions and unlikely. We're going to repeat that. NO WE'RE NOT GONNA take in a way complaints aside. I was super interested once again. What you were saying? Last night I was like. Oh Yeah I'm super interested in it. I just love that moral philosophy awesome question. You pose that you murder. Everyone in the middle of the night in no one's left alive to suffer. What's wrong with that? Some people have an intuition that that would it. Really is a victimless crime. Because there was no suffering. And there's no one to be bereaved by it. So yeah I was that bad. If you don't recognize that there's some value value in all the goodness. You're closing the door to. Yeah then it's it's very difficult to Parse but you know onic has a bit of a nihilistic streak in her and she you can get going on that not being necessarily a bad thing. Which makes our biggest psychopath of all time again to the Times that I can in our I guess this would be nihilistic? Monica favorite thought exercises to Magin the aliens hovering above earth. Just watching what we do you know laughing and then sometimes finding us quite cute like we we we were at a hotel in the balcony. Overlooked this wedding area. Yeah and we were watching this great wet. He was a Jewish wedding and so they were singing and doing all this stuff and I thought the aliens are like. Oh sometimes these monkeys he's get together and they dressed this way and they sing and they step on a glass and everyone's happy and this is this is lovely of us. You know a lot of its head scratchy scratchy. But then some of it's like oh the aliens probably digging this right now but I often think yeah I mean you can over think a lot of stuff at the end of the day. We're just just a bunch of monkeys trying to stay busy until we're dead. I mean that's really at the heart of everything it's like once you wind yourself up you do have to remember. We're just another species on planet earth. Just stay busy and fed except our creativity has really allowed us to fly the perch of evolution. We're not just monkeys in the end. No we'll tell me why make a case for why we're not just monkeys because when you agree that we do like think of ourselves is like three hundred deviations above chimp but that's not the case. We're only like a couple. We're not that far off. Well there's there is a a a quantum difference than a binary difference between us and every other species in that the leverage we get from being able to use language and create culture basically create an operating system for the rest of the species wearing the acquired knowledge doesn't get lost generation after generation. Just imagine what it'd be like to lose all of this every generation of all the institutional knowledge technical knowledge. I mean how do are you having to reinvent everything including computation and computers. And it'd be hopeless right. Yes so so every a person born today I mean these are the kind of trivial things we can observe like anyone who goes to school even in in elementary school understands more about certain things than ball of humanity. Did you know even your rates right Lehto or yeah exactly right. And and that inheritance gives us so much leverage and ultimately it'll give us the leverage to change ourselves Connecticut and change the Germline and integrate ourselves directly with technology and in some ways. We're already integrate with our technology because we're so dependent ending on it for communication and information retrieval. I mean we're we're functioning like cyborgs. In a way I mean we're kind of neurotic. cyborgs are technologies driving a little crazy charge and shattering society. That's all of us that we have to get a handle on that. But it we're all of this is headed is not clear and I think the future of creativity and insight is is truly open ended in in a way that it's not for any species the chimps are going to be doing with the chimps. Did a thousand in years ago a thousand years from now we decided to change them some. Yeah right but do you think because I just had malcolm glad well on which is one of your greatest interviews ever. That's right welcome invited you on which I don't think the great the truth is I didn't even know until it happened. and which was my assumption. I imagine you like him like I. Do you love his books and stuff and just to get to talk to him. It would be an honor and I never spoke to him before so there was there. There was very little context. He was interested in the writing. I had done on self defense and violence. I believe Four but it was it. It was not clear how how this was GONNA be framed. Or what what. The context was the narrowness of the focus. They were the ten percent of the people who might not know who you are. Not Things that you're associated with me on an expert in security. This is by my side right right. This is my best could be described as a hobby. Right okay so he gets invited under album podcast and he says basically if there's a home invasion and the perpetrator takes your family hostage. What's the best move who've in Sam Sam basically said it's wisest for the adult fully? which you know you lay out a really compelling argument man I think you're ultimately right but what a gut check first of all of my own? Pr this solution. It doesn't originate with me. And I had to be sold on this. First of all it's not the generic solution to that problem. You you have to stipulate a few things before four. That's the thing you should do if you can effectively fight back well then by all means combat. Yeah and and I have lots of thoughts about that. Sure if you're in the situation where it is a choice between lying down on the floor and getting them mobilized straight you know you're you're GONNA get tied up in front of your family or you can run. Um running is better because running running. Starts the clock. Ticking where the person who now is holding your family hostage knows that you're now somebody help right so surrounding and again. I think he mounted a really successful argument. Freak out or something. No I think he enjoyed it. It was like provocative it's a fairly emasculating. Masculine argument is it's incredibly. Go live with in all you know. I think maybe it's a male thing. Maybe it's I think it's a male thing but yes I would say of seven nights a week that I fall asleep three of the nights before I go to bed. I do plot out some kind of scenario where I'M GONNA defend my family in the middle of the night. It's something that's always in my mind and so in these hundred thousand scenarios I've created my mind never did I just sprint. So when you hear someone you respect say that that's the the move it really takes you off to imagine is the look on your family's life almost be worse than survive in your daughter's is but in actuality you probably wouldn't even if you knew logically. That was the thing is. It's an extremely hard thing to to imagine doing. But the the bright line I think you need to have which which I I would defend really against any challenges Allen is that you should never let yourself be immobilize. Well I was GonNa say you kind of reverse engineering a very commonly known thing. which is you? Never the GO-TO A second location was. It's better to get shot right there in the street in a car and end up at a second location. Nothing good ever happens to the person who's taken to a secondary crime scene. Yeah this is never surprise birthday party and you know this from the movies but you also know this from just reading what the police say about what happens in those cases so it never gets easier to fight for your life with whatever tools you have available than it is right when somebody's saying and get in the car and drive. Yeah or whatever it is GonNa make a weird parallel. But that's kind of reminds me of the rule offroad racing which is whenever you're freaked out flora flora because the front of the car will get lighter. Whatever you're GONNA hit or go over or jump off while you're better off with a light front end? But it's a real counterintuitive the muscle memory. I'm reading you have to train yourself like oh I'm trying to figure out how to apply that to my life them. Sure there's a bunch of ways but anyway back to the Malcolm Gladwin thing I was saying this cumulative knowledge that we're born into in a weird way is our Achilles isn't it in that your general person awesome myself included. I drive around all day long. The Super High Tech Car. I'm talking on a phone. That Super High Tech and then I just start feeling like I have accomplished the stuff that like like. I'm really brilliant again. So it's important to remember that. Yes we are smarter an exponential fashion over chimps in ways but at the same time we're also dumber than we give ourselves credit for for quite often right. Yeah well this is a point that was made by David crack. Our has a very Really wonderful biologist. WHO's running the Santa Santa Fe institute which is a interdisciplinary think-tank that brings together biology and physics and economics and they've been doing fascinating work for decades now and his point about this is a certain technology is cognitively competitive with our acquired talents and other technology is cognitively creatively complimentary? So certain tools you use make you worse at doing things that other people who never had those tools. We're actually pretty good at. Oh uh-huh like navigating like so like. GPS most people can't read maps anymore. or find their way in a city because they they never took the time to figure out where anything was because they're totally dependent on their on their phones. Yeah so that's a cognitively competitive with us but there are other told me language itself it gives you. You're just learning a language and learning learning arithmetic. You can learn this with pencil and pen in the world but you internalize it and it actually allows you to do things that you couldn't otherwise do and his favorite for example of this which I don't have an experience of is an abacus which apparently once people get good with an ambitious they internalize it and they can do it with their minds. They don't actually we need a physical advocates right. Yeah there's no question we're getting worse at certain things and if our tools fail will be on a very Crowded episode episode of survivor. where he knows anything? Well the the reason it came up with him is that you know his new book talking to strangers is just really pointing out how terrible we are at communicating indicating with one another. If we're an in group out group of any kind you want to construct whether it's police and people getting pulled over or innumerable ways. We don't understand different different groups that were so bad at it in the question is why why do we think we're so great at it you know and I think it's because we are aware of that. Many people can communicate with different cultures. The understand those things and we see it pretty regularly so we just kind of assume that we're probably not bad at it but in fact we're quite bad at it and we could be getting worse at it. I think. Perhaps we're getting worse at it too and technology would be culpable for that. Okay so when you and I emailed we talked about. We're GONNA different conversation today. And it's one that you and I were kind of made to have for different reasons. But the topic today is living in examined life."