Mind Over Body Cure
Well, we've heard quite a few people on this show and others claim that they have thought themselves well, even in the face of death, but what about those people who do get sick and do get worse and die. Are they being made to feel guilty for not thinking themselves well well. My guest today are on opposite sides of this mind over body debate. Doctors don't know why my first guest is alive Lynyrd, borden says He. He changed his attitude. Imagine summarize warriors fighting the cancer in his body. A month later, the cancer was gone my next. Gus was told she had eighteen months to live if she did not have chemotherapy for her breast cancer Jane, Griffiths says she refused the treatment ten years later. She is still alive. My next guest wrote one of the most popular mind over body bestsellers. Dr Bernie seagulls love. Medicine and miracles explains his experiences with. With what he calls exceptional patients who hill themselves in the face of death. My next guest is a doctor who totally disagrees with Dr Segel's philosophy Dr Shirley new says sick. People are being made to feel guilty if they don't heal themselves, and there is no proof whatsoever that any of this works Dr Newlyn is author of doctors the biography of medicine. My next guest got so tired of people telling him that his severe backache. Backache was his own doing because of a bad attitude and stress. He wrote a column in Newsweek. Magazine to complain about it. Meet Rabbi Benjamin Black and my last guest says when she was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease, people wanted her to try acupuncture and Yoga and love to get well and Spain says she live as long as she can, but she is also planning her death. Welcome all of our guests to the show. Start with you. I'll start with you. Because is where we got the idea to do the show from that column that you wrote in Newsweek magazine. What happened? I suffered from a herniated disk and I was just looking for some sympathy. And, then I suddenly realized that there was a psychological change in our society. and. Everybody kept saying to me. Why are you doing this to yourself? You must be the victim of self induced stress. And what really got me upset was that I recall the friend of mine who had died of cancer. who was able to deal with the reality of sickness? But couldn't cope with the fact that throughout the last days people made him feel as if he was the guilty one because he didn't obviously want to get well strongly enough because he wasn't trying hard enough, and he would cry to me. Does this mean I'm failure? What I'm saying is that there's an extreme position today I grant of course that there's a great deal to mind body relationship I grant as well that there is such a thing as love, medicine and miracles. What I think is wrong is I believe is a rabbi that we pray for miracles, but we don't expect miracles and when they don't happen, say that anybody who isn't well must be guilty himself. Don't blame the victim. Victim. Do you think Dr Newland this is making? People feel guilty as they die well. There's no question about that. That's really not my problem with Bernie's propositions. My problem with Bernie's propositions has to do with the aura science that he puts around them, in spite of the fact that what he's actually done is to take an enormous leap of faith, which of course is the secret of it all an enormous leap of faith from certain experiments, which show something that we all agree on that. There is a psychological factor that involves the immune system I don't think any sensitive physician physician with any experience could possibly disagree with the concept that patient state of mind is very important in their illness. But along comes Bernie, and says poof. The mind controls the immune system direct quote, the only quote I memorized from the book burning so that I could use it today. There's no evidence of that, and as long as people continue to believe with their minds, they can control their immune system there believing something that they simply can't do. It's like getting high LSD and trying to jump off a roof and fly, but you yourself just said that it's an enormous leap of faith and suppose it does suppose it does control the immune system, but there is no proof that it does. It's not a question of there being no proof that it does or does not. It's a question of our already being so close to understanding the various factors that do control the immune system that we know that the mind, the conscious mind is only one small factor. What actually happens is that whether we develop immunity to something whether we can control the disease process has to do with three systems in our body.