A highlight from Trump mulls preemptive pardon for 20 allies


Businesses listened to wonder season of even the rich on apple podcasts spotify or the wondering app. Welcome to the beata ari melber and we begin with quite a scene involving rudy giuliani. Remember remember as donald trump's legal project dies out and also complicates the republican's chances in georgia it's trump and giuliani who are keeping the former new york mayor in the news. You really ask me down of course reported very insulting. I not the president for four activated. Mr giuliani's denial does not rule out whether he discussed this. With president trump amidst reporting that the president is mulling pardons for up to twenty allies with republicans worrying about the prospect of an unprecedented string of pardons that they concede could be seen as an abusive power and us backfire. political report. I just mentioned includes names that do show why some republicans are already getting nervous about this possible beneficiaries ranged from convicted felons. I paul manafort who trump law claimed. He barely knew before twenty sixteen. So why partner to the eclectic vintage you see there on the screen. The absurd concept of a celebrity pardon for joe exotic from the hit netflix. Show the tiger king. This is real life apart. Debate has republicans nervous because trump has shown little concern for other than trotting giuliani to lie about the election since his loss. There's really been no other pro republican or american plotting as well as far as we can tell so regardless of how this impacts democracy the rule of law or the gop's hold on the senate. Donald trump is mulling barreling ahead. Meanwhile the legal teams efforts have been rejected by the courts. Lawyers forced to drop lawsuits. After admitting under oath there was no voter fraud and no evidence. We've reported that and now with hit a period where giuliani himself is attacking a republican legislature. For letting down america adding. He's ashamed of them. Stoking internal divisions heading into critical georgia runoffs. Now like it or not. Presidents have broad pardon power so this particular trump era battle which you can see. Republicans are increasingly nervous about it boils down to judgment not breaking rules or norms the rules authorized trump to pardon anyone for federal crimes if he chooses to the president elect is already warning that even if it's allowed the current president's actions could undermine the nation standing around the world. Well it's a it concerns me in terms of what kind of pressure sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws in injustice joined now by former federal prosecutor glenn cursor and michelle goldberg from the new york. Times a good to see you. Both glenn given that this is a lab. What are your views of the point. The president elect makes that there are other costs are talking a lot about pardons i fear for the next couple of weeks and probably for the next forty eight days because it is likely to rain pardons were hearing more and more reporting that. Donald trump is considering party. Any number of people and you know it raises so many questions about the pardon power The i think most important thing to know. And everybody has said this repeatedly including me is that if you're granted a pardon that generally extinguishes your fifth amendment right against self incrimination such that you could be forced or compelled to testify even if that testimony included things that incriminated you because you can't be prosecuted for it but you know it's not quite that simple. It's more complex than that. Because if you're granted a federal art you could very well cell say. That's fine but i may have committed state crimes so i let me steer you steer you are a little bit back to the question. I appreciate the fifth amendment privilege. But i'm curious bottom line. Do you think it is a problem. Even if allowed the donald trump go forward with these types of pardons. And what do you think of say what we showed rudy giuliani claiming that he has no interest in any of this. Meanwhile there's reporting hard reporting multiple sources saying they're talking about this for a lot of these people are ordinarily would be a political problem but donald trump seems to be largely immune or unconcerned about political pardons as do his republican supporters of my. Call down glen. I'm asking do you think there's a good idea or not. Horrendous idea for the rule of law prosecutors yet prosecutors ari generally are not fond of pardons because we spend months and months sometimes years investigating indicting and prosecuting crime. And when somebody wipes all that away with a sign of a presidential then that's not only bad for the prosecutors for the victims. It's bad for the country. And what message does it said. I'm going to michelle in. But i'm i'm going lawyer to lawyer with you on the colloquy here. What message does it send again. Even if it's allowed a lot of things that are allowed it's it's legal to lie out of court right or not to congress but a lot of people criticize politicians when they do it. What message sent at the end of the trump era again. These things can become normalized but they shouldn't be that in this final these final two months december january. According to the reporting he is focused. Not on battling cove it not on the legacy of the other putative policy goals that they claim to have about the rest of the nation but just trying to get other people off the hook that are in his circle. It it sends to messages are one is that. The trump administration was rampant with crime. Because if it wasn't donald trump wouldn't need to start delivering pardons to everybody and the second message. Is that future politicians who are contemplating coming into power and committing crime. Have at it because you know what you can always be pardoned at

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