Brendan discussed on WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 858 - Lizzy Goodman / Dana Gould


Y you know and i are you going to have your on tv show i'm going to be rich no not anymore still have to go out you ask me in minneapolis and do a weekend uh but on that but i am on executives over tv show yeah i know is no actually no but you should plug your the mc's comedy special goes he didn't get one earlier all you'll have a commie i have many of them you of another what what i found what must have you feel about this moment where like i did the comedy stars would netflixing was good i was glad that i got the opportunity sure yeah but then you hear about like you know sign fokker's rock and louis this is like the ah they just gave jerry seinfeld half a billion dollars thank god because we need who was learning it's not i'm not even jealous but it's sort of like give me like a maybe maybe like five percent yeah yeah i'm not complaining but if you're throwing money away yeah exactly i'll take a little no i was a you know i they were it was one of those things where i was going to tapered and then i was gonna do it with the company that i did my last russia with and then there were the dates were confused and then there were like well we can only do it on this date and i was getting ready to go into production on season two of the show and i you know you can feel the material right inning and reaching pugh tressens sure and you feel like dying yeah exactly and i was i was looking at some nick i was looking at a new products that list as they go i really wanted to get it down ago and i have a really great agent at william morris them silvio lund who's really a terrific guy and he goes let's just do novel and he called up this record company in damn nailed it and and get it in and i do find the audio lives longer than the video so people listened comedy on the radio they listen to comedy on their phone i it's rare that they will sit down and watch a special again that's true that's true i l walsh asif yeah yeah exactly but all listen to especially again all this shit you always in the comedy records i've heard before i listen to because because now uh you know you have that done than you're getting ready to go back on the road and yet you've got to frantically get new shit guinness shit yeah i mean i i'm not i don't believe it has to be one hundred percent new but it should be you really not believe that or you just tell you i really i know i really do but uh i'm i'm much lower than the percentage that it should be i think people want to hear one or two hundred families that you know like i i dunno i got the idaho 'cause i think you and are similar in that in that whoever's judging that whoever saying i this year from the record whoever saying that usually we make them up and you out now there are no there are a couple of those is ideal hit that twenty percent of the suv his new wave that why do we listen to that guy because he's the guy that hates us as much as we do he sees this is already just the way we are with a little disappointed with this was never the almost you'll has got it but not quite right but i i you know i probably saw george karlin i don't know a dozen times my life and i would always love it when there was a oh well he's going to do baseball and football great disease and you go this is great listen to this i sure i i listen i like hearing beats like he because this museum it is a form of music digitally form of music when you know like i hear who i can was due over and over again if it comes up in 'cause i got the shuffle gone on ma if schimmel comes up and mike because like the ear was such a master of this very specific type of timing kind of like morose jewish he you know who it's it's the disease descended joan roma jackie veronica yep that good good poll well he told me although yeah and you know who else was heavily influenced by jackie vernon let me guess who stephen wright sure that makes a lot of ads yeah i love jackie vern yeah jackie o'brien was amazing scr i saw he was the guy i saw my parents took museum when i was like eleven oh my god where that's what change to me because i saw him on tv do the slide show and then he came to albuquerque and i saw it in the paper at out in albuquerque was a lounge in the hilton hotel phantom my parents took me that's fist of it and that was what i was like that's when i knew it whenever you but what if he opened bush and soon turkomans should they would have been fine but what we were close enough just to see like you know he's a hold and he's like you saw all of it is in this and that it was not afraid i was like this is still good i have this conversation with somebody is really really interesting is talking about how much i love rickles yeah and i was talking to a a younger com we'll they're all younger and owes quoting some rousseau stuff and this goes help us us laura his own because he so unworkable because it has nothing to do with that yes all music i love the ud in the rhythm of the music and i remember seeing him sometimes he said things that didn't even make sense but because no i will give you a beautiful example i was with your friend and mine rob cohen at the desert in and they had just had a giant renovation of the desert in and it was sweltering in the show room when he goes out a forty milliondollar renovation they get a great airconditioning system two facts on the roof of the peace looseleaf paper glenn doesn't mean a gut dim thing he could have said tortoises zeroed onesyllable i tell you and could as a bear as you know i'm not laughing because i am straight and therefore i'm exerting my heterosexual privilege via in a derogatory way no eases thought of that of that part of that of that and that's what i have yet but the weird thing is we give you isn't something like schimmel who is usually the victim of his own joke yes in his life had the life of fucking job yeah and then the political whatever's politically incorrect about it itself offering a software threat and then i don't like he is the victim of every jew every joke has a victim and symbols act it was him yet in something somehow that can elevate ivan i agree i agree yeah i don't know if i have these discussions but like i for some reason i'm just able the separate i i don't know that you know revisionism is necessary just because times change in terms of what you you you feel personally attached to her what you like i don't i don't odds visa will difficult but but i can says it already owned for me i can still you know i don't do we delete all that stuff do we delete are emotional connection to right i i don't see how that's possible tackle and it's like when we damn my have hitler's paintings i have to separate you have that book on i have the coffee table excuse called raspberry lauda angles lot of hard angles not a lot of people but a lot of beautiful buildings oh i used to joke about that it's like well you know hitler was vegetarian but but yeah there's an i think i also in a lot of it is just being the soldier nostalgia for being too beating a kid a like watching rickles on the dean martin roast and every but it's a totally different school of show business than new and i grew up with golfway told me the story that when he worked with reckles rickles would would just roast him all day uh and then afterwards a poolside now you set a small lead money the eu is a very carrying well that lowvolume that's where my grandmother said she go see him in vegas and he has yet on everybody but he too she's she put it like this he apologizes very nicely renault but the only thing with bob did he couldn't understand is that that he wore jeans onstage right easily bob you can't you have to get the dress nice addressed and that's the general that's the thing that broke for that generation like these kids they they would do about those things that was karlin the kid he's talking gripe but what i'm saying is in that era in for us it's i think it's like we understand that he's seeking safe haggar he gets it whatever and it doesn't have any leasehold me we gotta shoulder that and if it's like a you can attack me for y'all still respecting somebody who is not of david his original like and that's in and that's and that's a that's a valid point that you do have to update in and he didn't he didn't need he i was watching him i went down it was yuri lewis rabbit telling when he died oh yeah and i was watching the jerry lewis rose from 1968 rickles was on it with the two things that but that it will rise rose that's not even the right the idea the one the first who the killer who's just like jerry i say this from the bottom of my heart jerry you're a jew his justly all right yeah but the other almost didn't he goes you know jerry's a clown and there are a lot of grey clowns emmett kelly that's about i will not give up the other baru hui was rose the is when the martin ones and j jim stewart was on the day is and he goes a jimmy i spoke to the family you're doing fine hosts one there was one where he was on it was his last appearance he was his last carson appearance because johnny was retiring on and then he may johnny lab zohar johnny got into a coughing fit careful john every time you cough lentils at home highfiving the life little good will and i love one and it's a real shit have you seen that one where they built him a club filled with just celebrities the martin there's a dean martin rose who was might have been the d martin show where they wanted to recreate alive rickles show i have that 'cause i signed up for the guide them the other demar the i never saw coming i had no idea there were so many but there was one that came it might have been the d martin show but they set up a club they mean on a sound stage and had people like pat boone in the audience all the celebrities kartal malta bar like he was probably nineteen seventy the early 70s mid70s yeah and and rickles just went up and did his club in insulted ever yeah it was great and as you sweating mid70s when the american flag had wide lapels warren ugly i go it's an interesting question though about because i had this moment where you know being a comic as long as we have you know you and i are old guys already yeah and and by the way just two i am fully aware before anybody jumps down my throat about don rickles and whatever i know i'm i'm i'm done i'm in i'm with this is not what is contemporary this is my view of it pete townsend was talking about the john entwistle used a bitch about wrap that he didn't get it yeah and he said it's not our job to get it it's our job to get out of the way and and i am aware of that yeah i get it i get it yeah well no i mean i you know i can it's becomes difficult with depending on what the transgression is here to stay supportive you'll have to be supporters somebody you can condemn somebody and you can you think somebody's awful but still say that second record though that sure you know and then you somebody said a really smart the genome our solar arguello should young new comic really really funny really funny and really martin somebody was bashing some on woke person new than apologize for it and she said you know you have to let people make their mistakes and grow in public he kinda led have to you have to let people grow catches white dot terrorise them into some sort of cultural siberia yeah the you know the my last special the one before this one um i had the whole thing at the end of boat the our word uh and how it's now relegated wizards see word and i tried to do on those bits ya ya and i wouldn't in i did i mean the bit was a boat the strictly the nomenclature of equating that word with the n word in this year oh it was actually addressing the that that whole thing it wasn't about like i don't use it that way no because then i did use it uh you know i know is that i would never do this and then i did i cheated all over the place and i you know i i said it and i said the n word in the sewer day and i say them now relish at home time mutter myself but whatever i would i would nothing happened but i wouldn't have done i wouldn't do it today i got i did a bit about it about defending you know the use of it in you know in a sense of like in a ended this style gic way um y yo how you know what i mean i grew up with that yeah right but then i guy the guy that igf someone i think it was an email the just said we you know i'm the parent and in and that was a you know i like i had a couple of swipes but in eventually i got a handle on it i i did it and then i met john mcginley lose of very on the forefront of of of all those issues and it becomes real via an and it's not about first amendment that's about though these people have feelings and their young their lives and you're okay i guess that's the thing hey how attached are you two that really need it have you read them of using that word it's not he's no one's censoring anybody yeah it's like you're hurting people's feelings and it's already hard for them yeah exactly brilliant yes i guess they have a rough enough time any and you can and that is truly you can say that will riggles talking about fragile new have enough to have enough they have enough trouble i my my feelings about that are like you say whatever you want the shoulder the uganda water take the take the burn yeah tell uber then handle it what the what's this new were the new season standard against evil what's it did you finish it's all done joey finished it premiers november first on ifc house a different uh it takes the story it takes us roy for the premise of the story is the whole idea of the shows was quite simple i love horror movies are my football so i just thought what if i did a horror movie but put a character in the middle of it that didn't belong here and it was basically what if my dad was an harm of has he wouldn't give it doesn't know just know does he does no he doesn't give fuck right and and we used to make that joke if you remember the indicating kong he's on the building in the planes are flying area my brothers and i used to joke did of our dad was in one of those planes that he would fly out of formation check the scoring the baseball game comeback shoot a little bit more go back and i just thought it would be interesting if like what if instead of buffy the vampire slayer it was just an old irish guy that didn't give a shit and and that was the the premise and i didn't i my mother is still alive but his wife who would have been my mother dies before the show starts and because i needed them to have a giant vulnerability or is just hassle oca them what john mcginley did with that was created this amazingly nuanced character is a good actor huh israel has been around for a long time ago he's not fuck in a row it doesn't seem age much either doesn't know he's he's good lives at the gym i mean is this arms are and i say this knowing he's listening to it his arms are terrifying um uh no easing these in crazy like an old irish boxer from like a poster for the he's like hundreds who was in the issue williams was like five over visas and wall street is a platoon he was in any given sunday but he's built like an old irish bar and how he's all upper body and but he created the he gave this character so much more than than i had give it it on the page and and i have to also give jet at foreign ego amazing kudos for the way she balances him the ballast that she and as such a strong actress the because john is done so much of this work that for the second season i had to right up to him so i developed a whole arc of a story line where there is a time travel element where he's going to try to go back and save his wife's life oh wow and as as always happens makes things much worse oh good and that's the arc this as the art the season and what's the name of the record that see the digital this is what did them i call it a record 'cause i don't know what else to call it how it looks it in a my doubt because my downloads sounds vaguely filthy ah mister funny men and this is what the kids on her the account how many you've done how many record seventy special uh i have the worst i proudly have the worst album titles fun houses fine yeah but it's an they keep up album and his version is albums much better uh let me put my thoughts in you i know what's wrong which was okay this is mr funding in screwed what i mean the bigger problem is really the art work generally yes like looking at what you can almost any comedy record in you know somebody who's like move was i think and yeah homeless every comedy record bullets every comedian gets to be a rockstar for that that one day we you get to look figure your album cover via i did all right like you know in retrospect i don't have any stupid once i ask you know the last don't try to be funny on your color exactly don't try to be funny on your cover that's it that's it iin the war here quad split headshot via the worst people from boston we both novaya the what were their different panels viking different hats and i can't say it on the air but i'll tell you what were probably sure have on those i remember seeing it becomes clear i like how there were different has i know they can play different jobs it would be a fireman and a chef who was a doubt i will good well it's good talk in the arabian sea all dana cooled the great dana gould so lizzy goodman who i'm going to be talking to next in just a second um she was very good friends remarks pits the lay mark spitz they david years ago and mark spitz was a a great writer in his own right of music writer and wrote a greg memoir and he was on the show and because he passed not too long ago that you can still listen to episode in the in the free feed if you'd like it was a great episode very personal very engaged and we missile marqui we miss him you know i think i'm a good cook when i make food at home but there's nothing worse than not having the right amount of an ingredient or leaving out a step or not cooking something for long enough i hate all those things but with hellofresh the recipes are simple and he get them on step by step instruction cards with pictures it helps with making things that i never thought i'd be able to cook on my own or that i would cook on my own in general you can scheduled deliveries when it works best for you and i'm really busy with my shooting schedule right now so that's a huge plus and if i need to pause my account for weeks of the time i can hellofresh offers a wide variety of shift curated recipes a change weekly including the classic plan the veggie plan and the family plan plus they offer kid tested recipes selections like a pena port noodle bowl with bell pepper and carrots over rice verma celli or the easy pz ravioli gratin on with spinach time and parmesan breadcrumbs look i like to cook so i'd be cooking at my house no matter what but hellofresh makes a convenient and simple and the quality is top notch so it's a no brainer for thirty bucks off your first week of hellofresh visit hellofresh dot com and enter the promo code wtf that's how of fresh dot com promo code wtf so lizzy goodman the writer is my guest and i met her when i met her with mark once but she put me in her book can we talked about it when she was writing then she sent me the galley and i didn't quite get to it then she sent me the real book and honestly i just skimmed it looked at my part but i have very little recollection i talk to her about this but whatever was happening in rock and roll from two thousand one to two thousand eleven i gotta tell you i think i miss most of it i don't know what i was doing i don't know where i was i mean the last time i knew i was really blocked in to root to rock and roll happening in real time was probably in the late eighties and then side some i just some i went away i don't know where i went but i wasn't i wasn't locked in i'll mocked back in but this the two thousand one to two thousand eleven i was just a struggling comic trying to figure it out i do i get sober like i guess was right after i got silver that might add something to do with it but i just wasn't keyed in to the new york music scene i was just keyed into the comedy scene there was some crossover we we hammered out lizzy and i hammered out and i talk a newer the book is called meet me in the bathroom rebirth rock and roll in new york city 2000 a one to two thousand eleven which apparently are my lost years but that's not true i did i did radio did air america away way i got divorced a guy they'll get married got married and divorced in those years that would have something to do with it so i was listening to music but it was like twelve to fifteen songs that i put on a fucking mix after my wife left me that letter of that a lot of those twelve to fifteen sok unita heartbreak mix i got one how how long you've in la i have a real problem here really i just i've been here for three days where he frazzled you not a dry did you drive i know you drive here i'm from new mexico i know how to write weaker of your friends with i keep i always forget that i wanted to go i'm going you i i think that's a great idea it's great there had to how long did you stay in new mexico till like 14 seconds after i graduated from high school which highschool albuquerque academy i don't i didn't tell me all this now probably not i don't know you went to the academy here how do you i'm two thirty seven twenty five i don't know i just had a birthday and i have been i realize that i've been telling people my old age for at least the last couple of weeks because i forgot the elderly seven i was born in 1980 what was your old age thirty six turns out are you've and you have a goto no no no i just i have this joke with my friend rob sheffield that might ages is 26 forever i have not really evolved pass that i may i'm moving i think i might move i have to me become hear a lot more now what's happened and so i'm thinking don't use drop that i will vote will that but at one of my biggest or i've been thinking about where i to live show alana's neon it seems to be happening fedronic yeah in what way but i will tell you but just my biggest concern is that i'm gonna miss winter and one of my friends his out mean half my friends that i hear one of my friends his lobbying been lobbying me for an ally move for a long time was just suggested to me recently and i never thought of this like you go to new mexico for winter go have winter new mexico's eventually just go have a mild winter well i mean it's cold it's not new york coal i live in upstate new yorkright now oh my god where high falls new york it's what are you doing up there i was finishing a book this book yeah that embassies different one who one of the one of avoiding talking about on your wedding efficient probably hate it which is fine this not hate is not the word disagree with no italian a disagreement thing i missed it of course i miss this if the it's called earth and rock and roll in new york city two thousand one or two thousand eleven i know none of the bans in the really would you like some help well that's why we're going to do but not down yeah yeah so yeah i like the idea spending the casual winter's in new mexico where he here in the higher or some parka whitesnow nodded loom area the luminary of i've in kerala's is awesome when you get your health through in the lights now no known does the candles anymore you can't go said i know they are good they one hundred percent you it's the real thing all right some people still do the rules of very traditional place kerala's new mexico we what we think about living here i'm not admitting that i'm thinking about overweight now i don't lie echo part will people i i don't like them i don't wanna be near them like i don't wherever the williamsburg of la is i don't want any williamsburg valet thank god is not because here it's like bloctobloc you know williamsburg maybe i don't know it's different i mean i want to live by the beach but every night if that he can't live vitamese because yield you know fall off well why show business quarter year because of the book a real yeah marks like oh that didn't even occur to me what an awful idea i have i have to tell you were important which can into serbia but do you know some people like it so is known and i i know it's people love it and i understand that not being yeah i'm very sure there's no i know you and i'm totally teasing you i this book is about a period where you could actually get most of the people to play themselves as their younger selves and it'd be pretty quiet pretty close he added in various no it's going to be there like documentary and and narrative at like fictional adaptation series ideas around that's great i'm excited about it i mean i want to do more of that stuff anyway and always have or have in the last few years and so it's like fund to think about how to make the i mean people i've just felt really gratified by the kinds of ideas that have been a you know because as skeptical that the whole hollywood here at it so far than the people that i think we're going to be working with are awesome well we're did you how'd you start out where'd you end up you went to the academy graduate you got brothers and sisters yeah i gotta younger brother take that's a good name yeah he's get he lives in nigeria really he's a foreign service officer he's a diplomat o good for him the state department and cut them loose yes no um now not yet that's good maybe maybe nigeria this sort of like what i stand ninety he got there he just got there and it's funny we're talking about luminaries he's going to have lumina or something he's having he's getting married in december in england here on dan and he's going to have all this new mexican stuff we've been talking a lot about the new bringing the new mexico to the new mexico christmas vibe to london thoughts nice yeah so what would you go to college after you can ran away to fill it i mean i wanted to be on the rules like right away it was all about new york as obsessed with new york and with the idea of lake eastern urban magic get the eu's when he grow up in a smart household in new mexico you i i want to go to where really happens i like all this cowboy cowboy intellectual shit i that's exactly how i felt i mean it is disturbing to be talking to you about this there there's basically no one who gets out of new mexico so those of us who do all have the same kind of like course spirit about that if you go back they go back oh hi tonnes tons yeah i mean you're going back now i've been thinking about it yeah it's drawing i think about it to the way on wife yeah my heejoo like i don't i like i i don't i'm done with new york i'm almost down with la whereas from argun go this is how i feel you say i'm too young to feel it this is literally the conversation i've been having while i'm here i'm like i will always feel like i live in new york that i don't need to live there anymore and so therefore where do i feel good well that's only corral us exact cheese like me literally only corral starting to feel that it's the only play me for me is not quite corral but i always romanticise prowess but i'm a couple of miles away how you i think would i very close to corral but a all right so dan study what english and classics and your girl at the plan was only good was to be a writer now what a crazy idea what idiot would do that you can't be a writer what was the point of in new york and what just like hang out no the plan was to idea you know i was eighteen i didn't have i had a i had a homing instinct not a plan like i'm gonna come to college because you have to go to college like i'll go as close to new york as they can go and i was really good student and i cared about being gets you now i love school and great china japan but no the plan what it what happened was and this is the right call like i now understand this in a way that i can articulate and didn't at the time that i advocate for it it's like i had to put myself near stuff that would so i could be in a position to have what should happen next revealed to me brian what i mean later that's what new york is yet it's a no to be you know for me and and for others that that's kind of what the books it out here at sense of i don't know why i'm going here i'm just going here because it seems something's telling me to do that and i can't tell you why and i may not even know right away or for years but it's where my next myself is going to emerge on the oddly e know it's because the place it new york holds in the cultural unconscious yes for years since the 70s yeah specially if you're groovy artistic you know literary it it's like it it's grooms large yeah it means something to mean something it's an idea and hand but there but still to this day there's nothing like it i mean you you know you can i can't live anywhere unlike well but do you did you find always at like i was just in new york and for the first time in my life i went over to jazz at lincoln center as fiftythreeyearold and it's have always been there and i was there for for fifteen years on and off and i did nothing like oh yeah hey like all this stuff veiled me like people you go the museum of modern art i did once twice here but i am now like i feel like i'm ready to do that stuff in its fortunate because now i understand new york pretty fucking while i can get around and ought to do what other so if i go in for three days on my show again see let's do it but that's okay that is exactly why my i feel like my current relationship with new york is among the best that i've had which is like when you leave you are able to to be a kind of the it's almost like the first fifteen years are investing in understanding the place enough that you can become a named formed tourist when you go there so now i do that too like i go in from upstate you know every week or so every ten days and i do three days of city staff all my friends i gutted restaurants i do all these things that i had no energy to do because those so relentlessly overstimulated by the time i laughed at that i was like i can't even like i just want to hide and so now there's this the slate has been cleared and it's like new york it's fun again but that i don't ever feel when i was nineteen and started coming to the city from philly all the time i felt like mm i needed it too like kind of worked on me in order to help me figure out how to become myself and now i know how to be myself how did you go there were year ranked ninety eight i moved to philadelphia and i was in school my dad is a new yorker semi dagger opens in status in town via and my grandparents unawares there for a while a who's going to get that apartment come on you tell me about the survivors adel got your grandparents of art okay it's on has pink walls the who is getting that next ruth good men lives there she she's you know she's she's it's her place man here i mean no one's it's a rental it still like i know rentcontrolled renzo deeply rent controlled rental yeah your eyes are like glinting the cia is the new yorker area edge rooms juve everyday that have what's the kitchen like hallander yeah it's the last of the rent control listen everything you're thinking is true it's your fantasy come true it's like the per it's an it's walker they've this would be good always is when you've when i was there you like the idea of control was i i'd rent stabilize but that doesn't mean something i and stabilise to that that's like they're like it's not as brutal so really when you move to new york in earnest this is when this book starts yeah i mean i started coming to the exactly like i started coming to the city from philly to see show i love the story is it's in the introduction to the book it's basically like i i moved to new york the first summer that idea college says after freshman year i i moved to the city i lived in my grandparents apartment i worked at murray yeah and i got a job in a restaurant you worked at sesame street i had an internship at sesame productions or whatever that it was the production company that pretty sesame street that will you write in turn shed you're gone for showbusiness i was not go i was like this is the justification for me being here that's the one the ethics as all i i didn't pick it it was like available and we really i was like i need to go hang out in new york city trash camera oscar with no no they never let me near it wasn't a coup it was like i don't even remember what i did i wasn't near actual sesame street it was the production cut it was it you know is a midtown office building that was set not no would you how could you work for sesame street nakos he were seriously streets production company produces a lot of shows sesame street the crown jewel i was a lowly turn we love the you're acting like this is my choice yet one day they rolled in and they were like do you want to go to the sesame street sat and i was like nath no that's not out having no anxieties me i was i was i you didn't meet ernie organiser continued i wanted to meet rock voice mark i tend not grow her no grown all right grover and the guy with nights in serious who you're like all right yeah he taught me how to ride the subway right are you there you're working says mystery not going to not doing all of the things that i know i've disappointed you deeply and just i got a job in a restaurant 'cause i needed to make money because i wasn't in school and i had to lake support you know i had free rant that i had to lake right pete or whatever you run by close i guess whatever i cared about at that time records and so i got this job at this i got this job training to work at this restaurant crossstrait from grand central station said they were opening any day now and they are hiring up staff i got this job and we end of course it took much longer for them to open and they had anticipated citybased they had hired this staff of kids board hot city kids who went there every day for like four hours and got paid this lowly amount of money and did things like practiced waiting tables and learned the wine list and stuff like that and my coworker was nickel anc who was the guitar since strokes and he was in this band like hit with his friends called the strokes of now the portal opened and you're well no i mean no it was years that was nineteen that was the summer of ninety nine and it was i mean it was a couple of years before like albert the other guitarist had not joined the band yet they weren't they it was my friend nix like ban nick i was nick was like halfheartedly in college and they were just city kids and i was i mean the portal that opened that summer was not rock and roll it was new york like oh nicholas cool in in that he grew up in the city and understood how to sort of like wander wale and how to get into bars and how did you set just it was sort is it was what like i had been learning i it with training wheels in philadelphia that as a new mexico kid like how do you how do you orient yourself in urban life and let these places kind of lake you know wash over you and expose you two things you're supposed to be exposed to how to get the rhythm down and that like nick and i would just hang out after after pretending to wait tables and you know lake wander round office parks and smoke weed in office park teller fina behind off sparked pillars and sort of like just wander around midtown it wasn't and then sometimes i would go downtown to lake st mark's and sneak into bars and do stuff like that beazley it was like that was what was pal 99 summer here that must that summer was those were my marriage was falling apart that was the other big thing that is happening for every avatars you knew marc maertens mary and who's out more a yeah and then he got thrown out of that house in the other find to subway weighed down us instead it was way chiller than what you are dealing with try and dukan redo one man shows that was that are that is i was the best theater oh my god the west bath yeah that became significant for me later really yeah because all the artists where had their studios in there and still do it's still let me extra to yes rate on the west that the west village became later after i finally moved to the city in two thousand two became like my spot because i don't like coolness like i don't like i didn't like i do not want to be on the larry cider off that city will whites places for me when i when i moved there i guess was eighty nine the first time and then i went back in nine the four remember you saying that yeah but but you know and i talk a little bit in the book about the you know what happened then but it really wasn't the only put i was just a little weird historical artifact you put that this from the guys from the generation before radio exxon giuliani for two minutes well i needed that i've might do i thought i was well represented good you were i agree um so this is all just before nine eleven yeah and the you've you found your place on the west side where it's not hip with artists that are well no i mean i went back to philly for like that so what i'm saying is that the that's why it's this is an important about the book the s not bands like i wanted to be a lawyer or something i thought it was gonna be a lawyer i was a school kid but i was pulled towards this sense of magic and misery about new york city that is the idea that we are already just talking about and he hadn't yeah i loved writing but i didn't work from my school newspaper i didn't it wasn't like what what it was was it was like i'm i i i was being drawn to some expression of culture that was related to my generation that i that had not happened yet and i did not know that that's what i was being drawn to you that i during the next few years in the part the four nine eleven were all these bans interpol yesterday as strokes and in you know white stripes and other place like around the world there all the stories that converged in the book all of those people were feeling similar things like assent this basically the same age as i was and feeling a kind of like i wanna make something that i don't entirely know what it is and like the world is not really receptive for this kind of this kind of vibe it's not supposed to be about urban call right now it's not supposed to be about notions of near and what was it supposed to be about in a music industry is supposed to be about dance music erica in you know i i mean in england it definitely was about dance music or was about like postscript popstar th i mean and in my business it was like i mean in the writing what became my business it was like it wasn't that exciting to imagine yourself as a rock journalists because there wasn't a lot of cool rocked the end so that's right it was sort of submerged in jam jammed asked you for a little while they're right i didn't think oh i'm going to be a music journalists i thought there's something about the way it feels to wander around manhattan at four p m on a really hot day in the summer where everyone rich has left the at they're making me feel like i'm getting somewhere and i can't really tell you why and so i went back to college and i studied and an ice kept in touch with neck and a couple of other people that i owe you and he would come and play shows and then i would see in philly and i will go see him and i had friends in philadelphia who are starting to lake want to go to shows so it was like it was a thing to do that had enough in it for years it was a thing to do that had nothing to do with aspiration of any kind and that was really important and it was also like it was like traditional rocking aware coming back it was not necessarily art rock punk rock was sort of finished in a way and and i guess wakeham sort of 'cause like some of the bands in the book i was given like for some reason at that time when i was there in late 90s in then like i left by two thousand two yeah but i was given cds and stuff for iced up for some reason i have the jonathan fireeaters he shot up i do that's awesome yeah they were so amazing i listen to it and i was into it but like what you're with that have been have 90s yes okay so okay so that was that times out yeah yeah they were the yeah they were round is great ho right i have my buddy john daniel was involved with music so i was sort of up to speed on something yeah okay will and 90s wealth that's all right i mean but like like jazz it only o good if you were there i mean that theoretically lay the thing about looking at the book and reading through some of it is that like when i read please kill me that was the those were before me and i was when that was what everybody was going to new york to find was that that's what this is about no i get that with moscow eyes were going to find that for sure and you kind of right about that yes like that's we're all looking for that thing that was like just it was just the the remnants of it and the and the people that were involved with that you'll first wave of whatever made new york cool were just kinda droopy greyhaired dudes walk around in their weather payments that don't fit any more with somebody going like that guy used to be something yeah if that if they are even living there anymore but i i guess i just think that that's the continuum i mean it's not like every winning please kelme weren't weren't polling on i see the continuum of that notion of new york identity as much much 70s as going ponca much further i mean i think much scher further back that than just whole idea it's it's it's i mean this is later but it's fifty yeah and it's jazz it's it's fucking ellis island man it's like come to it's it's in the american identity of new york gonna come here and you're going to reinvent yourself and the culture all potency of that has is almost as old as you know as the city in some way and so but specifically in the world of the arts yes you know what what you know what came out of new york and and what sort of defined it is you had a wealthy people who were willing to kick in to make she had happened yes right yeah and a lot away sure to reject the of a lot of the factors but then i mean you know that for us because this is my taste in i i i think yours too like the punk the 70s punt seen in cb jesus just like i meaning please county was my total bible i'm obsessed with everybody and napa i love that music that's my stuff i came to that late you're now the earth your specialty is more material for the business card wait to the partly to the party on air safety and wrong kinda leadership skills doesn't look good for any of us march mirror merit love martin on but you know i mean obviously there's also the whole greenwich village like i mean dylan for most people dillon is the touchstone for this and it's so the idea that new york is this place that's constantly polling on a previous constantly kind of coopting and borrowing its own past self via to reinvent for a new group of young people essentially the a new for them version of the same thing how are they related to turn all right they can still find the space there if they can still kinda save their which is the question now but like for my for this book for young in the bathroom like i don't see it as a see it as just this sort of the the the chapter in the cannon at that new york cultural story it's just rose right into the bookshelf right there you know after police kelme and after madonna and light up before whatever comes next but it's just it's a stop it's a stop on the larger train i think that and what comes next is going to be a a prominent either chinese or russian trend do you have that i'm good authority seems like it that's the vets me speculating that summer noncash catastrophic start i have is not catastrophic at all as i say that so so when now way what starts to drive when did you meet the the the way great mark spitz i met the late great mark spitz pretty early i i assume he he served as some sort of guide to whatever the fuck happened to you while yeah i think he'd really like you putting it that way well what mark would say is that i thought he tommy everything i know of on so he would want me to say it that way i tell you this bright i've kid from new mexico through philly who's looking for a rock fantasy and that dini and blames outta some yes he's like i can help you out seles ruin your life and i was like great and say it's the glare sorry yeah he talks in his memoir about how i was wearing flipflops for spammy and he's like they're not shoes zia like he was very my new mexico vibe was pretty united wearing makeup i didn't like i was still kind of like fresh scrubbed girl that point and i think mark with space mark dea like you know bad bad asrat girls with lake peroxide blond hair and he was sort of like you are entirely to clean for me basically and i was like okay but you like me no no as a recipe for disaster who's gonna win well that's where it's later and he would say things to me like yes chased me you know and i was like hot can you do the thing amassing unity or what he writing for spin when you met him yes so the way i'm marklevinshow sara louissant who is also a great character in the book and one of my best friends was my roommate in new york when i first moved there so i graduated from college and by that time it was clear that like the city's music scene was happening and i felt i was like dare to it i was inspired by all of i was inspired i was inspired by and have sudden a there was something to write about nato i then was like i wanna be a writer who writes about this but i i taught secondgrade frontiers first 'cause like i can't be a writer thought that's nice i taught at an allboys private school on the upper east side uh glazer's no really has a double life for awhile we were real like fullon teacher major oh yeah misguided men secondgrade whether in how what how did that and why did that and it a two year and it's like your estate teacher and then you either maybe you kind of the carrying on of that would have been to go get a degree in education and like stay in school and would stop you from doing that oh you know i'm are on that cya now now he loved at he he would talk about how wake up in the middle of the night and i would go 'cause i had i talked to my sleep and here go boys get in line and you'd be like jesus who is this girl and is scary she's like yeah so now okay so now you're you're getting you're you're getting involved with the rock senior roommate is what is she says sarah was marks like little protege at spin so i met mark before i graduated from college actually at coachella the one of the first coach as i went out with sarah to see if we could live together we went to this rocked festival together to lake try it on here and on she introduced me to mark who is i mean it's it's in the book their their meeting is pretty awesome like he was he didn't understand instant messenger and because and he's mark air sarah i was like this sort of protec savvy little jewish girl in new jersey who is who liked his writing it's like high and i'm also girl he had like why is this window coming up and they can eventually she wore him down in the house and so she introduced me to him and we had you know a serious series of battles for about a year and a half that then got together and yeah i mean mark was my tour guide through he was writing for span he was a hot shit writer writing cover stories about all these bans and how'd you manage not to get all fucked up i don't know my i honestly i i think it's genetic i i really do i just i don't know may just have the thing i'd die went out and drank every night like everybody else and reich you know there is all kinds of drugs around in yet but i just didn't care that much about it for you but it's not good for me that makes it sound like something i get credit for and it's not like i get credit every not be compelled by that like the like to just a drink in smokes from we'd and just enjoy the music you don't have to go you know you i mean i like you don't have to divert alliance but it's it's it makes it sound like it's a matter of sort of will and it's not it that's why are saying connecticut's like i don't have i'm compulsive in other ways right now i get it i get it that's why i'm saying you're lucky unlucky yeah so that's how okay unlucky so let's talk about you know the the bands that define this thing and the ark of this book because yeah like i just i i think i got my first walkman album like six months ago okay i'm larry liking it so okay i think i got that guy so record i thought that was get those good singer yeah so the strokes you knew that you saw them become what they want us in then and then like the the white trips our guests were coming in from detroit occasional yeah but i didn't the white strips were not like sort of first generation in new york of that were like any who has that were the strokes interpol yay as an lcd soundsystem feel like the whole lcd soundsystem thing like people are like you got your view murphy guy got your mike i don't know what he did so i had to get quite catch up with dfa miyazu jonathan the guy over what is the aga he sent me all this shit yeah i like that the prince worn dance called record yes good first record i love okay maharidge starting went ahead to go find me that record like i said you have one of them around their way it not be you know we have one ring laying around here we were using as a as a as a like a a map for when you eat your time castle your way into this that's you will love james and y'all that's i listen to a no it's great it's great i watch the movie and i i actually narrated a short documentary five lcd thousands of heavier like who the fuck is this no anyway script evaluated out but like i know he something because he mental i too a lot of people like i can see how they met something that people can also see how they kind of like you know kind of like well there's a there's a gap pure that was once occupied by the talking heads yeah that we should climb in do totally the talking heads said that i mean that's what i got no problem that kinds of sending okay i am not jane so you're not to defend now i understand how music work tell me more i understand you tell me my understand that there is now out of new she it yes and that you just keep inventing the old shit i think i mean yeah all right sure i think the thing that all the judge the the period that the book covered with the book is about is not music it's about all the things we i talked at it's about it's about new york it's the central character it's about what it feels like for this group of people at that period of time under to do a thing that is eternal as we just described which is to be young and to feel on scene and to get together with certain friends serendipitous lay that you meet who unlock something in u n two in the shadow of lake at theoretical anonymity make something beautiful that makes you feel alive i mean it's pure that's like that's art that's young people that's new york city that's rock and roll that the but it's important for the book that the context is also from my generation are these people that we're talking about it's happening in in coincidence with all these other major global events like napster we just 2000 and nine eleven which is one hundred percent you know a huge part of this story obviously and it's about and then the reinvention of brooklyn and the commodification of brooklyn and the exporting of that via the internet the newlyborn internet to the world as this sort of notion of how to live like a lifestyle brand to be earth to by going to interview james he said i was trying to dip into that like the brooklyn idea in williamsburg and all this stuff in kenneth ease my way in he goes oh yeah that's all our fault like cool thanks scott and it's that's what so this story is about that but it's about that through the lens of paul banks and carreno and yes you know later jack white or the kingsley on guys or whatever and then off to england and off to the killers in vegas and around the world but that record we should nikola pile of what you did have it'll be about three hours them sti no than i i know i the jonathan firefighter that's a hall in allied it yeah that's a you know you get points for that that's a big crowd point the area the i like one thousand out is great i thought it was pretty good but those bans i mean to answer your questions such as it is it's like there's no like yeah there's nothing new under the sun and this is a retaliating of a generational story there will be i i believe that people make things new i i'm not one of those people that yadav a problem with appropriation i don't have a problem with with the of the evolution of music and he because like if you really look at rockets the people that really make something completely new or generally misunderstood and you may be years later people like i think i get it and somewhere they're like nato the other but there's a core group of fans that are sort of like worthy the only one said get it yet that bullshit any basically the story of the book too i mean if this is mark says this in the book i mean he's one of the greatest characters in it where he's basically like look i was 28 and writing for spain or whatever less was thirty something his thirty already and writing for span and like mark who had an encyclopedia harry say that pete accent encyclopedic thank you very much sandy pratt thing music and film knowledge and all that stuff of was sitting there in new york city loving york city's sort of but just board and that the thing that this that this that there's the sort of beginning of the book that everyone had in common energized boredom energy everyone was bored james murphy was bored he did not know carreno carreno was bored she did not know julian julian was bored gillian didn't know paul paul uh the interpol paul was bored and it was like in their own independent corners of this town at that period of time they all did something about that board and then mark spitz or sara or any of the other sort of non musicians but journalists future bloggers a and our people like all the different sort of um i don't know contestants in this in this like road show here all had in common that sense of what we have here right now is really not enough and we need to like build something cooler and no one else is doing it so we're gonna do it so when spits heard like i mean he says this hilariously in the book where he's just like you know when i heard the white straits it took me a minute to figure out that i was being saved because it was my job to write about mark mcgrath every day and like there it was boring it oh yeah loaded orient and that's the story idea like i get it i get it it's like well boredom mikey to classify all those artis as board i understand that but i think that if you in the history of of what happened with punk rock in the sort of like you know kind of strange angry apathetic posturing that happened is that what it comes down to though anybody who surfaces with any consistency may be board but their workers oh right well that oh totally i mean and that's also new york city like everyone in that town has to labour via the i got a want it yeah and you've got to keep pushing two two to sort of break away from the pack of garbage because in any city especially that size you know for every one may be original band there's going to be like twenty guys just tooling through rehash especially in an era where i mean it's hard to in it's hard to overstate this and it is crazy now but i mean it really seems crazy now that like being in a rock band i loved the guys and dumped than fired or talk about this and later the walkman they talk about how like telling your friends that you were in a band was like now i take us that late yeah it was like really didn't elettronica music kills janjaweed could do we have to go through this aid rallies yes on thursday is at sad than you know like you're gonna make us do that you'll biased drinks rate i mean it was like the least possible cool thing to do and and it was like lame and and kind of an opposition on your friends to ask them to conceive lesser so this whole the it's hysterical because relatively quickly people would be dressing across the country and around the world like they had just been thrift in on the lowery side but not when these bans formed but that's interesting because that whole thing you know that thrifty thing has reinvented itself with every generation of people yeah it's like the now like their thrift in 1980's clothing and i'm like no i know i now i'm feeling that to it's weird like his when i was in high school we were thrift in shark skin yeah not a better yeah yeah and then i had ended at kinda the whole for you know that rockabilly kind of boos like whatever the fuck it was going after the suits in any time we speak to someone about this like can we address this with the culture in general that we just nominate certain erez as as as take as as out of the loop of of going to be rediscovered some ambitious ivan around anymore like fortunately for now everything is made so badly can i know that will never happen you'll never never be thrifty 2017 they should is not going to hold up maybe we've inadvertently solve the problem rallying stealing the fascists that were previously thrift it yeah this is not even making shit that will hold up to be so maybe we just need a generation a cycle through that in like twenty years people will actually have to create new stuff because it will literally going at all disintegrate and have to create outfits said will withstand the heat of there i'm sorry i've taken me right out of there i did it i'm sorry for him you're not enclosed outfits with of'short new mexico's supposed to fair relatively well i mean waters going to be a problem but waters going to be a problem but we have the mountains we aquifers dory right on an akko yeah we give a lot of as i understand it no no eight i think we give a lot of water to california so mother fugger's he had one of the california's thirsty mansour okay so like i know owner free burger this one again with a list of names like oh i show you read all your quotes first come on of course yes okay then you looked at the list through an area in and i kinda poked around it like you know the chapter headings ps but a vote like i don't know grizzly bear the national i came much really lay to and i understand why they're good but i i don't know that i go back to the records up much tv on the radio maize i listen to their first and second record i'm like holy shit this is the media their incredible yet the a as the first couple of records i listened to her i had him the hives i had that record i remember liking so what is your problem nothing we're just get vampire weaken don't think i've ever heard him all right we'll interpol i think i got a recent record with like their back in a mike i missed it the first time pretty good we've routines just gotta whoever teens rokaya feeling about pretty good yeah kind of punky right yeah yeah i hope we will come on something and you'll be like you really have to go and do that is that what you're looking for ya well i buy a records i'm i'm mike i mean i mean a renaissance had music appreciation i'll send you a list i need i don't know like i have your book i know yet we'll you do though actually 'cause you can't start gone mouldy reaches yeah amazing did you play who's got the crowd i don't have it all right we'll play who's got the crap by the multi pages is just one song well that song in particular is your gateway drug for them dave across comedian i know him with his worse are you hold steady i like that guy greg gregory great right yeah he's a good talkers if thinker is good the killers i like that okay kingsley on first who records and crime what happened well y but okay that that's another alternate title for this book sure is where's the staying power while they're all still making albums and touring and dura al like literally all of these people yeah so like you okay let's talk about them what happened what did have well it's up first talk about like the whole that you know a nine eleven left in the world in that like in terms of near all over that chapter see that's another place right you would you but compounding the board white whatever that boredom was was that horrendous existential to terror sadness grieving like i think i talked to spits about that a bit did he ah but a lot of this came out of that well it didn't come out of that it riot it was positioned as gross that word is under the circumstances to be heard in a different way and buy more people as a result of it so lake nino none of these important records the first as record the first strokes record the first interpol record early dfa staff none of that had been was written post nine a lead and it was not a response to that ren before but it was about you know it was about all these themes that we are just talking about yet culture considered obsolete like sadness and anxiety and loud guitars as the solution to that as an expression of that is a response to being alive right it was like oh that's old news and then you know the towers came down and new york city is under attack and america is under attack and it makes you kind of return to the the sort of lake core aesthetics of rebellion and that's rock and roll so what are you want to hear you on here jack fucking white playing guitar you wanna hear the urgency of the first strokes record he wanna you want a kind of a manic toughness the that and i think so these bans who it's not like if nine eleven hadn't happened the strokes wouldn't have broken an englanda had already broken in england and kind of ignited this industrywide like doubletake towards new york before nine eleven happened there album was supposed to come out like the week after nine eleven the first one in the states so it was already kicking off but what nine eleven did is a couple of things i thank and this is argued in the book it it it animated it it increase the number of people who were immediately feeling the need for that kind of sound and it also turned the world's attention to new york city culturally in a way that it had not been it had not had the attention of of sort of like global cool hounds in that way in sense i dunno i also like it they were it was also the guy seventy hanshin for perseverance yes i mean ranked sympathy yeah you know you're bruce springsteen how to go to werleigh hurst tracy and got them back call tied to hit it and yeah and i think i mean all these bans talk about touring in the wake of that and being it off doing comedy in the wake of sure i and the but being cast is kind of emissaries for new york and again for this idea of what new york is about that the entire world on some level was either either loving your heating at that point in new ways it was it was interesting time because if you were new yorker and you did live there yeah you're like we're we're gonna fight yes totally and we're thinking about that now and and it and the other thing that it did i think for the purposes if this seen such as it is and tune day from tv on the radio talks about this in the book i think he when he when he said this to me it really kind of it was a turning point behind her standing as he talks about how the szekely he thinks nine eleven put a kind of pause button on the jansher vacation race there has already happening i mean the the sort of post the giuliani into bloomberg cleaning up of everything sure that would eventually result in the new york the slick anodyne near erni lives there no one does it's it's saudi billionaire's who have apartments for their homes yet they're summer homes that they like might go to it's me the ranch russian it's all yeah and it is it's well chinese i don't know what an honor i it's it's just feel like you've done it feels like it doesn't have a a cultural identity has architectural and the identity right now is money money has a bleaching a fact eventually on culture i think in right now new york feels to me like burnt out literate like whited out like nine i'm not saying that race i'll have her hands out in the way that it was burnt out was bankrupt brought down in the way back right that that like acid has been porn on it and it's it's blake bleached out like i don't know i mean i keep seeing you know i don't know what causes this but when a create is her your it has deadened yeah by capitalism yet money on and by people that don't that day they don't like it will be interesting to do really explore what is rooting there you know in the sense that you know it is completely antithetical that to what it used to be when it was i think the big difference was there was a time were always money there but the people that worked there could live this and now that central and what's funny and not ha ha funny but of course like the it's all connected to this era because that's way jane saying it's our fault is funny the in an again brooklyn brooklyn because it's all those people the new york became the kind of place where you would invest in that kind of apartment because of all of the culture that that re in live in debt and made it interesting and sort of buzz he and brand rival in that way and now all these people who bought their on some level whether they know it or not as a result of this this latest ingretation of that new york thing i live in a place where none of those people can be but this is also like in a way so boring because it's like no shit that's called the cycle of art madda called lake art versus commerce 101 i mean it's going to just play its that and held out over how they all moved out of the city like the that generation of their artist once they got money they all live here they orly or here or they live in new jersey or connecticut or are you not a lot of them keep sort of like i love this i understand this instinct i feel this instinct they keep places in new york like a little apartment on near the barrier rodal whatever lay in just to kind of be like no no i still guide of me i still have a place wrestle like this so this the the ark of this book front yo two thousand eleven sort of the ends in brooklyn beat becoming the like the the the wealth center of hipsters totally and the but also just that that did it ever have any integrity other than for sure but i also just think it's yes it did i'll answer that but also that the idea that that would have one of the things that's hard to see from now because it's so obvious that that is what took place is how unlikely that seemed that that would at the time if you had been sitting there in two thousand two and and sort of prognosticating that in twenty in ten years or whatever like williamsburg a place you could not get cabs to take you was going to be the default locus of cool for the globe for but it's weird because there was some would have been laughed out of that conversation what's really like i lived in the story i had an apartment in the story from 95 five hill like two thousand and two whenever they might sub wetter was just informed by the new known of the building that he now add the lease uh quick note with note under the door there were people like louis had a place in williamsburg there were people moving into long island city yeah and likes her was sort of happening but that was because you could get space fits dole rahab winning is that it's just like everyone move to williamsburg because it was cheap brand because in this to return to it ten days saying i mean it was like you could get free he indeed siddig met each other because they lived in the same converted loft and they were passing each other's rooms enough and seeing that the same shit basically was on the floor at each other's rooms and it was sort of like i guess we should probably talk you know you've got a same weird stuff in there and like loss and in that's not like it's so easy to be like wow that must have been so cool and it's like it's it's only romantic later at the time it's like i need to live somewhere and and and be able to paint place with that right but that's that's the story of the amine ripe but that context or that that framework of life has repeated itself yes generations generation totally though the yeah the law thathat's another title that we here but the thing about nine eleven that tunisia was saying that's important is that whole justification we're talking about in the money in the bleaching out or however you want a phrase it these are they his theory and i by this now is that that was coming much sooner and nine eleven pause debt because there was a sense i mean people thought no one would travel there anymore no one wanted to get on planes it was like leaving for a second it was like is new york's economy going to die this the is this really like are things you can get cheap they were rally are things are things going to you know plummet here is it gonna be russ 70s new york thing again because no one will tourism will dinro wanna live here and all that stuff is they're going to be because it was it was terrifying and it was like you know every plane that flew overhead it was i mean people there were a couple of years where and so what that created for the purposes of this book is this weird a period of uncertainty that was really a gift to these bans because there was a couple of years and this is my my hay day really of lake going out in seeing shows during that time it was two thousand to two thousand three maybe into two thousand four but fair li where it was like it was just wild everyone was like are we gonna die but hey let's party en route druggie and it got dirty and it wasn't that expensive yet rent wasn't going up really of sort of just like the whole the whole apparatus was trying to figure out how this was going to shake out and it was like kohl let's play the you know you should read boca for answer some of those questions behind the scenes what did you ever read that book securing the city on my god who wrote i like i like i recommend this book to so many people i did you secretly right it no oh could cover ominous yes it's a bow it looks like the beginning of every law and order old school lunch or episode is by christopher dickey who i believe is james dickey's son in the i still see him as a you you shows up on shows on cnn and stuff but it's really about how how new york had to create its own count yes i should read that it is to the injury yes 'cause it was like we had we're our own city and we ourselves yeah because federal government and the cia and the fbi were not talking real yeah there was in the federal government was not really stepping up so these guys know what was going yeah and it was it was with giuliani still who was like we've got to make our own counterterrorism force and we've got to have international alley yet ray kelly yeah food and this guy cohen associated irate ocala read this like and then i'll be like i should have talked to him for the buck this is my life like i wake up still at night is damage extradition don't even choke of add that why never writing another oral history ever again or only organized oh it made me move state to a cabin in the woods by myself because they had an emotional breakdown like it's so hard that organization is really a nightmare well you did it and people like it yeah and you know it seems to be all in their uae dill per is let's check it out they clear talk of what do you want from me i i think it is hilarious eiriksson i let my favorite people around the book art like that one of my favorite pieces written about the book was by my friend dan aasi who hates who does not like any of this music basically he's in the book talking about conner over since he loves turnovers but he basically doesn't he's a music nerd anna anna a rock critic and this it he's just like all his hand suck basically i mean not literally but it's not his stuff but the thing is like i have i like i i'm not a connor overspent but i have him in here handsome my best interviews with people who are mike i will that is why and say like i'm at that's basically i think i i enjoy the fact that this isn't your world i think that's more fun lagging learn the creator of service project to talk to someone like that then someone who's like julian casablanca's this my favorite rock star of all time you're like well you're gonna love this yet boy do i have a book free like the this is writing i take this this part of journalism seriously like it's not my job to write a press release for one of these fans its job to convince those who aren't naturally inclined to take this as interesting that there's something there well here's what i have to say i'm happy you kids had your okay are you gonna try to say that that was not condescending he has had a knock out of it is out of all right it's a joke it was it was it was a sarcastic coffin ha ha ha pa let's shift gears demar serious yet um you know i and then the private police state fire juliana of just personal stuff i mean like i i've and talk to you really since markelle passed away a eulogized him on this show thank you for doing and you know because i like the guy and i literally your text to them like would like a week before it happened here do you talk about what happened can you talk about it or not i can totally i talk about i liked talking that i think people are a little afraid understandably to ask me about him because it's france you romantically involved on and off your best friends he was on the up and up again it seemed yes 100 percent it's really tragic i mean the answer to what happened which is what i guess is like not known i suppose i mean i don't really know i don't know anything other than he died and then i i texted you too to say sorry but then i got no information and then you know you just sit there and go igor would have and what that you it's not he's one of those guys ruettgers bound to happen but he didn't seem like it was going to happen that way well a lot of people you feel like it's bound to happen and then it doesn't i mean mark was had a history obviously of drug use and i think most people assume that he died of an overdose and that's not what happens i mean he didn't he we don't know for sure because there was not an autopsy performed huh so there's no leisure a cause of death that attack i mean cause of death unknown as far as i know you ea yes so this is what you're not afraid to talk about we have no information kind of accept i mean they i guess they just think like i so i was here and you know we shared custody of our dogs for six so mark or seven an hour years together in from my 20s and then we broke up like 10 years ago and but we stayed incredibly close friends and he was my creative partner basically like that mark this book would not exist without mark he is the person on the other end of the line consistently throughout frame iin merrier well like naughty i mean sometimes like sometimes is needed grady stuff but more just all writers need like the the i'll people i guess that create the the sort of like hootie who is on the red phone was on it was like i don't know and this isn't working in what do i do and like help and also i just need to that it's like that was the dark we are really really tight creatively and he would do the same we would talk to each other about writing every day and our dogs and so i was out here and he had been in a period of incredibly badge oppression for a couple of years on i mean probably his whole life it had been really bad and um i was helping him in his his family was helping him you know try to get the right mental health care never quite came together for him and eventually and so eventually after a couple of years lake road than the month before he died he was better than i've ever seen and he may have told you that india he was like like running a little bit yeah he was taking better care lindo visit no no one he hadn't dan i mean i think i know that mark lied to me about drugs or the years he wasn't like here's what happened the night that he died he went to a bar on the night that i think he died he went to a bar because he i mean we don't know exactly when he died he went to of our on february second and he had a couple of drinks drink and a half with a friend and at six thirty something like that and he came home and he walked the dogs with this friend and he was inside his house with the chain on the door and the locks on the door and a bowl of pasta on his on his like coffee table they found him and i couldn't hear i didn't hear from him the next day and i was worried and i didn't hear for him the next morning and we he didn't do that with that i mean he the dog think mark loved dogs er that anything in the world and wouldn't fuck around if their howarth and knew i was all the way out in california i mean he was like mortar arctic about the doksan i am pia and that's how they a his eventually i woke up a bunch of people up in his super went into his apartment and he found him just slumped over on his couch with dinner on the table so like as i have never done heroin but my understanding is you get big bell right and also there was no drug paraphernalia in his house and no drugs oregon went yeah i mean it's an aneurysm or a heart attack or or what any he i mean the dogs were fine they were in that house with him for thirty six hours and they were thirsty and in america pasta here at left that here too viking luggage joni it in like pardon me asshole i'm hungry and like their sausage in that layer she's too short can get up to that just short short leg's well you know it's it's it's nice to know that it it probably wasn't some eur grisly relapse no i mean if fit you know i don't know enough about you tell me can you like have secretly donovan of heroin fight hours before and then go home and make dinner and then die from doing that i mean a dozen quite at up but i you know but it seems to me that he put himself and his body through and you not up to him you know you know and if you don't know what you're like i don't know one is less physical was i mean you could only had one he high made him go and get one with wh what was the informality all systems go but you don't i mean this is what the there's i mean i'm going to be dealing with moves it out over that out of my life by not heart stuff that well i mean right like this is if you have a blake blood clot if you've an an aneurysm is undetectable i mean you can't like you can show people and this we don't have any control over any of this in the illusion is that lake via if you take care of yourself and you get physical zinni's sort of like drink your green juice that there is a sense of of control over warding off death in it's just not like that and like mark abuse the shit out of his body but that's also no guarantee that he was going to die in that way and you can take really gets care of yourself and you can get hit by a but i mean you know or diet something undiagnosed it's just what happens and it's horrible it's horrible but the one thing we do know was quick yeah and he was there with the two people in the world that he loved the most which are those two dogs no good swear to god i i'm sorry for your loss and congratulations on the book and it was nice of you to dedicated to him of guel i my friend imran told a a really potentially off color but actually amazing joke about this on this happened because imran loved mark in knew him very well a lesbian he goes so that's what it took to get together because there was dedicated to my parents and they got for this is the only thing mark could have done and i mean you know you knew him quite well and you guys have a shared sense of real black humor and so do i and mark i mean i can hear and sometimes it's being like the biggest promised that book was there is not enough amee nso i had to be something that will yeah you've got to have the dark your mercy you don't you know so the bottom doesn't fall out was nice talkin united sock india that was fun those good those promotional in some ways don't forget if you're in now way you can join me and brendan for our only l a book event and signing this sunday october twenty nine th at seven pm go to live talks la dot org for the tour page of wto of pod dot com i can't play ktar tired and a little depressed boomer lives uh uh uh

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