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Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to Matt. Delia is confused. This is Matt Delia. And my guest. This week is Judy. Cutler Judy wrote a book called. Would I lie to you. The amazing power of being honest in a world that lies. I read the book. I loved the book I needed to talk to judy. We talked she is interested in many of the same things that I am And obviously based on title. Her book is about honesty she she tells a personal story while also telling sort of casting a wider net and talking about honesty more. Broadly how we all think of it. How honest we say we are versus is how honest we really are? These are things that plagued me I obsess over them. I'm confused by them so she really was an ideal guest show show. The conversation was amazing. Thank you judy for your time. And for writing the book Get into a lot of shit. Truth lies cognitive dissonance How we think of honesty versus how honest we really are why? It's even good to examine how honest we are. If it's good to examine how honest we are a lot of shit all under the under the all on this subject rather of honesty and yeah. I hope you guys like it as much as I liked having this conversation but here it is. Here's my conversation with Judy. Keppler and so oh I am Judy. Cutler the author of would I lie to you the amazing power of being honest in a world that lies and a bird the book for a few different reasons The big really thin was it. Felt like we were living in a really dishonest world. And I had this thought. One day that I I realized how much easier it was to see other people's dishonesty than to focus focus on my own and I wondered if I just focused on my own for a while if somehow that would make things better because I was like so frustrated and I felt like such a victim of this dishonest world and I thought well what if I try to focus on my own honesty So that was kind of one thing. The other thing was My kids are are at these ages where they're asking a lot of questions and my children are not shy and they're not easily embarrassed and like they. I like asking a lot like real questions than I sense that I wasn't giving them very good answers. It's hard to be honest with children. some things were going on in my marriage that felt like I wasn't always being honest with my husband about And also I always had this strange relationship with honesty where I was so frustrated with others dishonesty like I hate it when I thought people were lying to me but then I also knew some some of my own little lies. I was telling silly things like you know when I was a kid Making up presents that I got or telling the girls gymnastics team that I had that I had a boyfriend getting because I was too embarrassed to that you know like the push pool frustration with others dishonesty but really guilt over my own. I feel like that's been with me my whole life and everything just came to a head for me with Donald Trump got elected Where my children kind of came to this age curiosity a marriage all just came to a head at the same time and I was like Holy Shit I gotta figure out the honesty thing right yeah? It's it's interesting. I think the the the trump election sort of a touchstone because Just a lot of. I think it's caused some sort of. There's a lot of build up for a lot of people and a lot of different arenas I mean for you. This is about honesty but I think for a lot of ways a lot of people that was like a moment when something shifted but for it to shift in this honesty way or about onto for for it to cause a shift in the way one thinks of honesty makes total sense to me. I mean a lot of the things you're describing about you're looking at the world and being very frustrated with with dishonesty and then sort of somehow creating these parameters in your own mind for your own own little dishonesty throughout the day and and how incongruent that really is. I mean for me. It's like I'm so hard on everyone else but to me. The little lies lies. I tell just to get through a day. Or whatever they all make sense and they all sort of they. All our streamlined folded into the way I'm operating operating my life and it doesn't really give me pause but when someone lies even the little littlest way to me. I'm like well fuck this person. This person is a liar. You know and it's you you'll have a term for. I mean I read your book by the way I think it's great. Okay Yeah And there's is it the actor observer bias. Okay there you go. Yeah and so. It's a pretty simple thing that when you read it or described you. It's obvious but it's not obvious until someone pointed out which is most biases. Yeah you. It's very easy to notice other people's bad behavior and when you do the same thing yourself you justify it and you rationalize it And it's more pronounced kind of the worse behavior with Donald Trump. It's so pronounced because he so bad you know like he So everything wrong road from dishonesty to like everything we could spend the whole podcast talking about him. But we're it's not worth it. We should seek knowledge like everything wrong right and and so it's like more pronounced because then you're even more certain right you are not that And so it's really interesting when you start to say. But what if I do some of those same but if I do some of those same things what if that comes from the same place on tapping into that same thing and it's really an uncomfortable and kind of terrible thought ought to be like what if I'm not that different people who walk around. Lie Yeah I I think that specific thought is one that I share an out. What in the world? I'm not sure how many people go through that process. But I think for me whatever truth I put out into the world truth. Lie Dishonest honest. Whatever in that gray area as most things are I tried to at the very least acknowledge to myself? Trying to be honest to myself like you know you describing the book how your my favorite anecdote is is your friend. And and and in the conversation about the country Portugal your her associate. It came to think that she was saying her husband is from there and she couldn't bring herself to tell him that because it was by the time she realized the confusion it was too late. I mean so many things like that are happening throughout the course of the day but I wonder and in your experience just reading the book and talking with so many experts. I come to this thinking that most most people don't even arrive at that first part which is like this question of. What do I do that too? Is your sense that as as well or do you think that most people are actually like us and they do sort of. Have these sort of many confrontations about am I am I just as bad. Am I doing the same thing. Although differently like what is your perception of that having has two wide net you know what I mean. Yeah yeah and it's so hard because I would. I answer it differently. Depending on what I've just been exposed to so if I've just spent fifteen minutes on twitter and I'm like everyone is awful. The world is terrible of woman is like running over. You know. is is killing repeat like killing immigrant children with her car to read these stories. And you're like oh my gosh. It's terrible human condition. Is One of you know awfulness Niang and versus if I've just had a lovely discussion with some people and You know we talked about all this stuff and they're like. Oh Wow. That's it's really great. I do that too I think so. I don't know I think that the one thing I will say is in talking about this book and in talking about honesty had a lot of great conversations with people and it's a thing that honesty is the thing that people often don't think to pay attention to until someone like me. Oh I'm writing talk about honesty and we started talking about it and I see the little light go on in their eyes and they're like Oh that's the thing that maybe I should think about it. It it changes like. That's the great thing about doing this honesty work is. It's contagious in in a good way. And so I have found people very very receptive to it people in my circle but I'm my circle is kind of limited right. It's self selected. Yeah you know Prone to be like minded. I guess in a lan so it's hard and optimus Sydney. I need wants to believe that people want to engage with this stuff. I don't know if it's just that I hang out with people who want to engage in in just don't see like if it's a huge blind spot but I just don't see there are people that don't in the book you also mentioned the article that you wrote for The New York Times that sort of that that led to the book and You meant you specifically talk about this one comment that I wanted to bring up. which is this idea that? There's I share your disdain sustain.