Dr. James Taylor on Chronic Pain and How CBD Inspired a Transformation in The Waiting Room
Today I'm really excited because I'm joined by doctor. James Taylor from North Carolina in some of my home stomping grounds in the southeast James. Thanks so much for being willing to take the time and speak with me today or Jason. It's modern thank you. Yeah totally okay so just to prime our listeners a bit. Do you mind speaking a little bit about the work that you do. And how it connects to to Hampton CD and all that so are merely a pain physician we have seven pink clinics in North Carolina it was the opioid crisis. Prices that got me involved. Oh in the CBD space About two years ago as premiers coming from medical boards and hospital administrators straighter on We've got to change the way we manage pain CBD came up and opportune time for our medical practice to look figure out what is what do or what is it not do. Offer patients in pain It was very taboo back then in North Carolina to Even even think about this bring it into our a practice So initially when we did that we had a symposium and we brought a lot of people to the symposium we brought the police sheriffs departments attorneys board and members You know anybody we could think of that. Might want to object and so we gave him the opportunity to object if we were going to bring. CD into the State of North Carolina and start using it with the patients No one objected They all agreed were in the middle of an opioid crisis. And we gotta pull out every tool we possibly can use in order to positively affect that So our journey only began their our. We studied some patients and felt good about continuing to recommend this to our patients. And we've just continued to try to understand this this even better of of what it's doing for these folks and how we can positively impact. Their lives in that journey has been a very up and down journey journey. A- and so being new into the cannabis space You just don't realize all the variables that you're going to have to deal with but it seems like we take two steps forward one step back. Three three steps forward four steps back in so that kind of roller coaster. I'm understanding what folks in the canvas world have been up against so the last number of years. Yeah and I've got to say I'm a little surprised that there wasn't much resistance in those early conversations. But that's that's great to hear as well just that there's A desire to try to bring in any safe tools that can be brought in to try to alleviate some of those opioid problems that we're that we're dealing with now and what it What forms of? CBD are being administered in North Carolina. Because I have to admit I'm not super familiar with what's Osman going on there. Recently are people using Like tinctures or edibles different. What types of products are they engaging will primarily tincture In our medical practice we stuck with tincture. We wanted to keep it simple. Yeah you know. Our patients aren't the the most educated and we typically serve the poor and the elderly orderly So we didn't want to bring a large variety of different things so the tincture. We kept it simple. But in the state of North Carolina of of him stores are opening up all over the place that have Food products the smokable him The tinctures bay products The whole Gamut You know the North Carolina and FDA. They have come out a pretty strongly to say. Hey we don't want this food products right but they still sell them. And nobody's out a monitoring regulating them in. Uh we'll see where all that end. Yeah it's it was interesting to me to see Saw Picture very recently of a store in Tennessee that was a CD slash him dispensary and it was set up very similarly to all the cannabis dispensaries. You see you out here on the West Coast or in states that have legalized. But it's all hemp products. That's fascinating to me. That that's spreading across the country and giving people access to canvas products even if it's in that limited CD sense that they wouldn't have access to otherwise. Have there been to your knowledge. Any issues regarding Product safety contaminations or MHM product consistency in that realm. Oil is for the public standpoint. I don't think the public of of see's much of that. I think there's a couple of news articles where some product came in how they came from out West that probably contained. THC mother was not a hemp to rob product worked but there has not been a lot of media attention on Tainted are bad product of now we have a laboratory and we do testing So half my patients take a product that we kind of oversee from growth to extraction the other half of my patients take products they get online So that's very good for me. I'm able to see what these other products are In the new all take sometimes these products from the patient and test them and see what's in them in so we're discovering quite a bit Eh. What's on the label is not necessarily what's in the bottle? Yeah you know tattle on anybody But I think it's a bigger problem than we all realize. Yeah I completely agree just for my own analytical work that I've seen there's Quite a lot of inconsistency batch to batch When manufacturers are making products and then sometimes the differences in product compared to label sometimes that's genuine just product manufacturing variability and sometimes it's militias sometimes? It's just outright companies lying in order to get product somewhere where they it can be sold. Can you speak a little bit to how you know. So you specialize in pain in trying to to help people deal with particularly Egli chronic pain How do patients seem to be reacting and under what kind of dosages yet great question so when we initially brought it into our practice We took one hundred patients in. We studied them at that point. We didn't know that there were different. CANNABINOID profiles we didn't didn't know how to dose it We just did not know a lot. We just put this bottle of CBD in front of a hundred patients And said take a half a dropper twice a day and that should last in thirty days and now come back and tell us what happens and we follow them over about a three month period of time so with not even much knowledge we Able to gain so much insight. Now's a pain physician. We were looking for a pain reduction and of them. Not Needing their opioids And what we found on our initial survey is there. Pain did not affect their pain whatsoever. but what we found or was number one. They slept so much better interesting. He came back other sleep. Went from about four four and a half hours to six hours a night and they started reporting that they were dreaming though so we set. Gosh this is good. You're sleeping better. You're dreaming you're getting more restful sleep deep someone who's got a chronic medical condition. This is very valuable to give you that a rejuvenation of that you need in order to face the next day With your continued chronic condition. The second thing they came to us and told us is that they're anxiety level was less that they were less anxious in. They found that when they were having an anxiety flare instead of reaching for alcohol or Benzodiazepine which we know those plus narcotic will equals death? They were reaching the battle hymn the very quickly they realized if they took other tincture within twenty thirty minutes their prices was starting to dissipate. And so we saw this as risk reduction. Yeah Yeah Yeah exactly. So we can protect our patients out. This is a wonderful reason to continue to pursue those. Yeah and that actually echoes a lot of what I've heard from other physicians and nurses. That have talked to that. Sometimes the therapeutic response you get from canvas product isn't necessarily a direct reduction of the symptoms that you're necessarily targeting but Hits other symptoms that accompany that problem that over time are likely to have a positive effect on the core issue that you're trying to treat as well is it's interesting to hear about People people starting to dream again so that indicates that REMM cycles must be being established for anybody. That's sort of unaware have chronic pain. Wake you up constantly throughout the night and so it's hard for your body. Hit actually sink into the. You know that that depressed and to these rim cycles where you'd really Be Having having you know more lucid dreaming and that sort of more intense dreams And so that super fascinating and there's a lot of debate out there right now about how. CBD Canvas Broadly Affect Sleep is there are mixed voices about that and especially when THC's involves so it's interesting to hear from your perspective and a place that is not dealing with thc that you're seeing positive outcomes with sleep 'cause in areas where they are working with thc it's not what has straightforward. Is that because T- can actually interrupt rim cycles and end. It depends person a person of course to we also so saw that initial observational study. The patients came back instead. They were hopeful and for it. I is perplexed us You know we did. It's a literature. Search found that yes. D- Aachen affects. Serotonin Osso we thought. This was a mild anti depressant effect But over the course of of these last years we realized it's more than that it's neurogenesis it's neuro plasticity. These patients brains. Were starting to grow into win. Your brain starts to develop new luke pathways you all of a sudden have hope you don't patients who are in pain. Chronic pain I think have a form of PTSD you know and they just can't. There's just stock. They don't know life is going to be like this the rest of their life. It's never going to get better kinda stuck in this. RUT IN CD allowed them to have hope in that hope of translated into a lot of positive things in our clinic before our waiting room was it was awful as miserable place to be ENSO's very depressing But all of a sudden replaying reggae music people are talking to each other and sharing. Their experiences really changed our atmosphere of our clinics.