"This week. We are we are talking about a very difficult subject and one that we think requires a tremendous amount of attention with no distraction. You may have read a few days ago. A big investigative report by joke. Cosgrove Molina Risa about Ryan Adams in that piece. They interview several people who say that Adams was emotionally abusive and sexually manipulative and enlist in one case participated in sexual communications with a minor. So on this week's pop guys, we're going to talk with Joan Melena about their story about how it came together. And also about kind of the bigger picture issues that brings up about how metoo as asserted itself. I'm also not asserted itself in the music business and whether articles like this and stories like this are going to become more common. So I've got Joe costs corralitos pop music report in the New York Times. Hey. John Molina, Risa culture reporter and also part of the Pulitzer prize winning team for our workplace sexual harassment coverage last year. Hey, melinda. Hey there. So geysers a tremendous amount of detail in this story. But I I wanna talk a little bit about in the music business specifically, and I'm not talking about Ryan Adams in this case. But broadly speaking, there's a lot of whisper networks, there's a lot of people who are spoken about stay away from so-and-so cetera. That's a common thing. It's much less common to have a number of people certainly some high profile people you have many more who is Ryan's ex wife. You've got Phoebe bridges. I know you spoke with other folks who are recording artists. Can you talk a little bit about how this story kind of came out from what I would imagine began as a with. But whisper network into something more serious and substantive like this. Yeah. I mean, this story kind of launched with a in a sort of twofold way, we got an anonymous tip. You know, we have the times has an honest. Line. And a lot of it is heavily used for information. Like, this people talk about, you know, check out this person, you know, his bay badly in whatever way. So we got one of those and kind of I think simultaneously Joe was talking to some music industry. Sources in a way that led him to think you know, that maybe that tip was worth looking into. I've been having a conversation with a source that I knew through previous stories, and this person was sort of tiptoeing around the idea that there was a prominent musician who may be deserved looking into. And then as Molina said, we got this tip around the same time. I think after a day or two of of the sort of vague back and forth that I was having. And of course, this like you said the whisper network, this is was about someone Ryan Adams who has a reputation and his reputation up to this point had been that of bad. Boy, I think I would say bad-boy rocker, you know, of reputation he cultivated himself. Into famous for sort of onstage meltdown are two for leaving a critic nasty voicemail heating, combative online, even with fans and listeners in general and being somewhat of a womanizer, and that's often the euphemism. Stick way that abusers are talked about in public space in space. So I think as much as he had this reputation. He was also very nimble at avoiding being pinned down on it because he continued over the years to work with a large variety of very prominent musicians. And also a lot of young women one of the kind of intriguing parts of the of the story. They picture is this kind of forward-facing image of I'm an advocate for young female musicians. I put them out on my label. I talked to him about songwriting. I. I offer mentor in I you know, I very vocally speak out on behalf of them. And then as you see in your piece what's happening publicly is often quite different than what's happening by the scenes. So maybe can we talk a little bit about some of the cognitive dissonance or the non cognitive dissonance of those circumstances. One thing we really wanted to underline in the piece is and you know, this took a few drafts to really hone in on. But the idea of how power works in the music industry and that because it is a more diffuse industry that's not as top down. Sometimes an artist even in artist who's not a household name or a bestseller with radio hits can wield a ton of influence and power in the industry. This is especially in something like indie rock and something like Alta country, or whatever you wanna call it. These sort of smaller scenes someone like Ryan Adams had a lot of credit. He had a lot of attention paid to him and that allowed him to both lure in. And champion these women. So something as simple as a tweet about how good someone's album is or an opening slot on a few of his tour dates that brings a lot of attention to arising or an emerging or an aspiring artist. And that's that's what we saw him doing publicly. Now, what we found in our reporting is that as we say in the piece is there was a much darker reality behind the scenes where he was sort of dangling. These opportunities telling women he would make albums with them. You know, he has a studio he has a label saying they were the greatest thing ever. He had a few lines. We heard over and over again, he would tell women, you know, I hear your next album. I it has a lot of strings on it or he told Phoebe bridges that. She was like Bob Dylan, and it was always this gushing praise while"