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"The welcome to the podcast Her husband and Vigny US recently published a epic media post that readers should earn should should definitely read take a look at why don't you talk about some of the main insights that that drove the poster that you're hoping to to hammer out the so in a nutshell at the post takes a bunch of environmental modeling work that I did it Rocky Mountain institute at Right after nine eleven two thousand s four and really looks at how we could use that environmental model to make really major breakthroughs in how much just environmental consumption we have real white radical reductions of consumption as well as increases a pair of increases in quality of life and this is kind of a big deal for me because I'm not used to seeing any kind of realistic klom which offers both reduce consumption on increase quality of life So what I figured this is like wait a minute if you did this you know using a blockchain using some of this kind of stuff you get something that works it was from us one of these moments where you kind of turn run by women it the world is actually substantially better than I thought it was you know there's there's something to be done here which is useful that was a that was a big new for me and the the content of the peace basically breaks world up into two parts there's a thesis about you know how the economy could be mobile right for basic functions investment production consumption and waste an through those phases. We've made enormous breakthroughs in the past two hundred years right production has been completely revolutionized by mass production at its been moss muscle transformed again by process control at which turns into quality control investment similar statistical approaches give fool theory and give us a quantitative final sin H. F. T. at for the at consultant Shen on the waist functions in society so what we've got is basically this kind of super numerical optimized investment corruption system hitting a kind of donald trump for consumption which is why everybody's parents basements garages are packed with two metric tons of junk that accumulate over three or four generations of an what we propose to do about the is basically start looking out to develop things look I like European platforms that run old way through the lifespan of manufactured goods so that everybody in the system news exactly what they're doing with what it's worth you could build efficient markets three US things but you can also efficiently figure out what the our friend wife disposal taking part figure out who could be salvaged net it helped me understand this these few different approaches so so you're Jeffrey Western his books scale writes about how economic growth is just inherently unsustainable says not only do we have to is just a treadmill have to get faster and faster but we have to replace the treadmills and some point I just get me again debate any any further your run up all the resources we started exponential decay of environment that's that's one approach Tyler Cowen like respond back that saying yeah but over what period of time we'll take a few more thousand years of the status quo people thanks bye sooner a glare TB and then a recent book and I think you're more along designs but I much Nuance Way Andrew McAfee writes his book more from less which basically says hey we can have it all economic growth is now increased economic growth also has been leading to decreased resource extraction and so basically the only way out is through the only way out is to innovate our way through this verse conserve our way through this crisis how do you respond to the the different approaches in what's your solution so if you're not gonNA see any economic roof all that really means is the people that are currently or state poor forever and this is not GonNa Happen Right human beings are not going to stop chopping down trees at to try to increase the quality of life anytime soon if you will themselves shopping on trees you've got good battery poverty washburn agriculture. So the the people that are currently own one dollars two dollars five dollars a day of income they're going to fight like hell for economic growth because for that you can only grossest with their kids get wear shoes like there's there's no way that you're going to stop the human impulse toward you just you know making sure that your diner we childhood adot required human the human needs to be provided for which of course economic growth because we're not doing it right now and it will you come suggests well we could have radically more equal society adults fight on paper but it turns out that most of the time you run that so for you get death cups you know it's we tried to the number of threes and it has like a really hard core we're gonNA laughable everybody and make them all the same kind of economic policy just seems to result desktops gulags bow starvation you know the the attempts have been made to turn communism international working system of overwhelmingly gone really really amount we say people looking is much more dangerous than nuclear power. I don't mind the Scandinavian socialism but you know when we start trying to solve the problems of countries India Scandinavian Mobile Socialism is not GonNa fix it because you just don't have enough resources for its work so that leaves you radical resource efficiency you we'll stop over consuming which means globally we have to start bringing our food I'm really rapidly but you also have to increase quality of life every Doc Walnut poff because if you don't people won't accept the environmental transformation a note that I say quality of life for consumption ready other term that we might use for that because I think it is very crude that would really do the analysis quality of life Kombi divorced from a whole bunch of other factors as well as quality of life is going up maybe we don't mind coach you know if the reviews for things that won't too expensive to buy so for us didn't solve some urgent address some of these environmental problems what trade offs do we have to make if any will okay so let's let's just rough this right so a huge chunk of the pocket for beef production and then the rest of the food system kinda falls in behind the of the environmental trump's for the vast majority of that transfer is people that are commuting seventy five miles work every day to one burst vehicle and then you'd go a heated processes right key your buildings hoping the main one of those air conditioning those three things together are the vast majority of Global Environmental it's basically inefficient insulation houses single positive car to be driven sixty miles a day for the enormous energy consumption associated with beef on the stuff that goes along side without like deforestation nearest wound slash and burn and then Brewed Cup so the Gerbil Gut's thing is nor even vast chunk of your environmental consumption depending on what your lifestyle isn't who you ask the numbers can be ten fifteen twenty percent but it does hovering Ormuz downstream impact because the factories in China are producing those foods are emitting carbon on your behalf so one way or the other the modified sector's utterly a substantial chunk of the up we've got mine suggestion and this is not in any way she prefer new the new forest figured out how to do this the tradition is the that are actually markets for almost everything was just thrown away most people because of inefficiencies in the markets forget rid of stuff earn a position with actually far more things than they won't too but the transaction costs for getting rid of the things that the own but they don't want to ruin are so high they never get rid of those things so in less people have gone fully kind of Murray Condor one bag lifestyle or other kinds of radical minimalist approaches in west people have made that transformation already in all probability they'll way more stuff I want to an all of that stuff is tied up working capital but it's also mental footprint that could be avoided being somewhere else if we could figure out how to get it was boots pasta on whether people would want the so so as Andrew McAfee right in the sense that we the only way out is through we need to innovate our way through this and we don't actually have to make any trade offs except for the trade offs inherent in producing more economic growth. I guess well what's let's say could be thing for second right so if you just look beef consumption Estan you basically have two choices in either people stop eating beef because there is some sort of beef substitute which is better the beef in some ways you got moss conversion or we take like five centuries persuade people to stop eating hamburgers right there there's no way that we're going to stalk you know urge scale brief reduction in west of governments that are really serious just going to take the humber is our people's mouths it's not happening anytime soon with a kind of stick based approach coach at if there's going to be a cairo-based the only thing you can do is offer somebody a better burglary the burglar the don't point a hostile innovation lead now this is not to say that we can do a whole bunch of you know stupid ignorant fix right if you want to drive innovation in the replacement of beef by something that's always environmentally damaging you might start thinking about taking some of the massive externalised costs of beef and then taxing stuff so that you say okay you know it's something we're specifically in beef but we are going to target water consumption in food you know because it's so dry or aquifer put we're going to target almonds beef and fuel the foods tyrannus Warford pets you cannot imagine environmental taxation polls he's being brought in to bring up the coast of things which are currently being kept artificially eight of the cost of enormous environmental damage but for the most part the only way you're going to solve the beef fogleman's by innovation clearly nothing else is remotely practical and I think that we need to be very clear the marches we might won't governments feeble to mandate people make radical lifestyle changes cutler environmental footprint wild ways you live in democracies in the vote-rich are not gonna take that anytime soon maybe in fifty years off the entire world is desertified tumbleweeds through New York maybe by band or will be willing to vote for therapy but you know like realistically it's not going to happen on the same lives in the in the same lifestyle same as the problems could be solved so if you want to solve the problems before they're so bad that the finally vote of you have to take an innovation lead coach but nothing else is gonna cut it because the voters are not going to move anytime soon and thus the end of the story in a democracy right so more capitalism modified capitalism needs to change from today we'll okay so the thing that I picked up a single sort of the."
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