China Expels Three Wall Street Journal Reporters

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

However tonight there is a twist on the reporting of the casualties and the doubts and the non transparency to twist is this headline in the Wall Street journal China expels three Wall Street journal reporters sub at China revoke the press credentials of three wallstreet journal report is based in Beijing the first time in the post now era that the Chinese government has expelled multiple journalists from one international news organization at the same time to help us understand this puzzle and also to look beyond this to the up to students of the reporting out of China these last weeks of the covert nineteen crisis we welcome Jonathan ward author of China's vision of victory Jonathan the expulsion of the newspaper reporters for a regime that is fussy about its world image does this make sense our it does this demonstrate in some fashion the brittleness of the Communist Party good evening to good evening John good evening court it's good to be well I think in reality this is an old piece of the playbook for great for Beijing not just the expulsion of journalists but the desire to control the narrative and if in doing this to countries with the think they have sufficient power to do so for quite a long time since the days of now say don't need done this with Indian media back in the days of the border what they're doing this in South Asia even today where you have investors from China telling individual newspaper editors of the call that they can't publish this or that bone China today they think they can do this to the United States and it's very similar I think to what they did with the NBA at the end of last year where the essentially said you can't say this you know tweeting about Hong Kong and then asking for an official in the NBA to be fired so this idea that China can intimidate or whether it's media entities are business entities on the shows I think if anything the confidence yeah China has today to state that it can control the narrative not only inside China but outside China because of course the Wall Street journal is beyond trying this person aware and so are you know many of the you know we'd in which we use media outside and they seek to influence all so a lot of this you know just sense to me you know one China's political system is to simply incompatible with that of the United States is incompatible with the modern world in China's power is growing far too great and that is what we will have to deal with going forward Jonathan you talk about confidence of the senior Chinese leaders at this another way so for instance right now those senior leaders face an existential crisis for themselves and for the regime and they need the help of for instance the United States and yet they're doing something that is just going to aggravate their image problems in Washington and elsewhere I would think that this is an instance of China lashing out doing something that is against its own interests and shows therefore that something is really wrong in Beijing what do you think of that theory and and how do you parse through it as you go forward I think we have to understand what China's leaders think that China's interests are this is a a nation state crews Regina has hearing did essentially it can unleash a billion people on the world and and come to rule the world because of that so they're very much in their own ideology when it comes to how to appeal power in the sense of what they've achieved in the last thirty years of their sentencing so you know the whole idea for great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation which is the central narrative of the Communist Party the idea that they will rule the world by the year twenty forty nine but the open road will be built made in China twenty twenty five will allow them to dominate every major industry these ideas have not gone away even with coronavirus on the other hand what you have is is a a real you know almost shut down slowdown in the Chinese economy in the first quarter of this year that I think is is is yes putting the pressure on and showing the world that our dependency on China is going to commit to great a price I mean all sorts of companies in the service on apple missed quarterly earnings and such and those that are really buying into the idea that China will continue to ascend okay never very tough decade going ahead because of China's confrontation with the United States yeah I I think that the sense of destiny the sense of the great because the nation that's held by the Communist Party and its core leadership bond is absolutely a very dangerous path for China because it leads to this confrontation with the world and that that needs to control essentially information even in a time of crisis Jonathan he maybe I'm out of touch maybe I don't see this but my sense is listening to what you're saying is that we're talking about a leadership in Beijing which is kind of view of the world which doesn't correspond to anything that we know because China right now does appear to be weak and I don't think that they got the position to be able to intimidate countries for very much longer because what we have seen during this crisis is the one victim the one real problem for Beijing is that it's lost its image of invulnerability so I would argue based on what you say that China's leaders are just themselves out of touch I think it depends on what the world does to come together against essentially to the rise of China at this point I mean look at what we in Britain this is causing huge problems for the US UK special relationship and look at China's economic ties in Southeast Asia and the way that that creates the difficulty I think for diplomacy in our ability to bring countries into a folder mean they're able to accomplish a great deal and it's still requires a concerted effort from the rest of the world I think to to say that China's ascendancy at this point cannot go too much further if they're going to have a regime like this I don't think the world has come together to do that yet but it's what must be done Johnson is there one explanation for why she didn't being didn't go to the center of the virus right away he simply could Chang why didn't why didn't she go there what it what is the thinking any leadership in the west would demand I mean some analysts have pointed out that this would be consistent with you know prior for instance now and and others that remaining in control of the crisis it involves you know being pulling back and working from behind the scenes and then sending simply another delegate out she has tried to cultivate an image of him as a man of the people but you know in this case it probably shows more than anything how dangerous this fire threatens dangerous yes but he is a puzzle did they have another way of looking at the world when the general doesn't lead he's not the general that's it you know I'm not being fancy here but she marching around in Beijing with a mask on was absurd well John do you know it's interesting that you say that because on social media in China many people were saying that seizure being was a coward and they contrasted him with what you mentioned the Primera Liga Chung actually going to move on talking to doctors in the hospital and they said see Jim being just stayed in Beijing and did a photo op yes Jonathan you know as well as I do that you the measure of the leader's how it does in crisis not how it does on a good day right that's true and I think we have yet to see with the with the real consequences are going to be in the Sunni could certainly be in a dangerous position it also could offer an opportunity for those who are against in circles of power to come together you know I'd love for term where does your garden well you know I I just don't see how they get out of this because they're lashing out and whatever friends they need they're alienated them very quickly yes I I you know we used to tease him as being looking like Winnie the Pooh but in that mask in Beijing he didn't look anything like Robert eight eight it looks like a well all right sign leave it alone Jonathan do you they were using the term Chernobyl for awhile of the clock is running if that's applicable do you believe explicable because the roof the clock says five years and they're gone that's what happens the Soviets is that a fair analogy we have about thirty seconds I think it depends on how well they're able to gain control of information and how effective the surveillance state that they built in you know centric social credit score and all the rest of it is I mean this is going to be a real catastrophe something to tolerate apparatus they built are they able to control connection message sufficiently to essentially roll over all the dissent that will come from this we will see Jonathan war he is the author most recently of China's vision of victory garden Chang of the daily beast I'm John Batchelor

Coming up next