Saudi sentences 5 to death for Jamal Khashoggi's killing


Saudi Arabia has sentenced five people to death for the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi his show Jeez death last year inside a Saudi consulate in Istanbul caused international outcry Saudi officials have consistently claimed his death was a mistake carried out by rogue agents but other investigations including one by the CI a and another one by the U. N. found evidence that the killing was the carefully premeditated execution the Saudi court whose proceedings were mostly conducted in secret also sent in several other men to prison but exonerated two senior aides to Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin someone we're joined now they've been Hubbard at The New York Times welcome thank you do we have reasons to doubt the integrity of this particular verdict what's your sense well as a lot of people think outside of Saudi reboot after you're raising a lot of questions are there just the fact that it was held in secret they were you know they did let some local media in but no international media of certain you know that's just not a lot going on here in terms of international standards that would make people feel very confident that was a legitimate process truly trying to ascertain who was responsible for this killing and how they should be punished if that's the case what purpose do you think this verdict service for the Saudi kingdom well you know the sun is very interested in putting this behind them I think that they realize how how much of a black mark this was you know the verdict as it came out today very much lined up with the Saudi narrative which says that this was a very exceptional active reserve not trip planned this was a decision that was made sort of in the heat of the moment by the Saudi agents were on the ground and who had not been dispatched to kill and and have not been authorized to kill right and how does that narrative differ with the narratives emerging out of these other investigations investigations by the CI a bye bye Turkey by the U. N. we do not quite a lot about what happened and we know that there were fifteen agents from Saudi Arabia who flew in in the hours before Mr Shoji showed up to receive his paperwork work they spent time in the consulate preparing they had entire conversations before he arrived about his body about the size of its body whether or not pieces of it would fit in suitcases one of the agents referred to him as a sacrificial animal when they arrived at the consulate then there's sort of all the efforts that the Saudis put in afterwards to try to cover up the crime they brought in forensic and chemical experts to more or less forensically cleanse the crime scene on a huge huge amounts of effort to keep the the Turks from sort of figuring out exactly what happened and who did what and you reminding us that at least a team of fifteen Saudi agents are flown in a is stumbled who were involved in the killing of Jamal Khashoggi what do we know about whether all of those people have been held to account we know that five people have been sentenced to death we don't know their identities we know that more men have been sentenced to prison but we don't know if the fifteen Saudi agents are these people who now face penalties no well I mean we we have good reason to believe that the there were eleven who were on trial you have good reason to believe that these eleven were among the fifteen who were in the scandal I don't think we know exactly which eleven they they were right and you know we don't know which people did what I mean the date that the Saudis did say that the five who were given sentences today were the ones who were actually involved in the killing where as the three who were going to prison were involved in covering up the crime and violating other laws but other than that we have no detail exactly who these people are what exact role they played in this killing I want to read you something the U. N. investigator on yes Telemark wrote today she wrote bottom line the hit men are guilty sentenced to death the master minds not only walk free they have barely been touched by the investigation and the trial that is the antithesis of justice it is a mockery do you think that fairly sums up the vast majority of international reaction to this verdict today well I think it sums up a lot of the settlement in the past and you can write it states we've seen a lot of anger from various parts of the US government of with you know the extension of the White House elsewhere in the world I think there are plenty of other countries that do business with Saudi Arabia that are less concerned about you know pushing it on human rights you know the the the Russians don't probably care so much of the Chinese and plenty of other people so is this where the inquiry ends inside the Saudi justice system I mean is this the final word from the kingdom well I don't think it's the end of the Saudi judicial process this sentence was referred to as a preliminary rulings and so these can be appealed and then they can later go to the High Court before they're any executions they actually have to be approved by the king and so you'll just the Saudi legal process could go on for quite a long time okay for these particular individuals facing punishment now but with respect to additional individuals who have yet to be held to account could there be further repercussions it doesn't appear that there's any further investigation going on Saudi Arabia I mean I would be very surprised if you can give came out and said we have new information against new people and at this point I don't think there's a lot to expect from other other external process easy either I mean the the UN rapporteur he quoted earlier yeah she had called for an international investigation plenty of other people have there's just no I haven't really seen indicate any indication of these kinds of calls getting any momentum

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