I work for you Beverly and you said, Mark, I want to have a meeting with you. We're all we do is talk about you. I want to know how I can support you, what your career goals are. What you might want to learn, anything that I can do for you. I want to dedicate that time. So when we have that meeting and you give me that time, I'm automatically feeling I matter. I matter to you, Beverly, my manager, because who we give our time to demonstrates to people, whether they're valued or not. And so just demonstrating that you care enough about them that you want to give them that time and that you don't look at your phone and that you don't allow yourself to be seduced into saying, well, you know, Beverly, why have you here? Where are you on that report? So you have to keep that out of it. It has to be just a personal conversation. And interestingly, I had Marcus Buckingham on my podcast and he said something that I totally agree with, which is that our span of control is limited by the number of people that we can have a personal conversation with once a week. And some managers are going to go, I don't need to talk to people once a week, but guess what? That goes back to your point about connection. It's what people need in order to thrive. A connection with their boss, where it's just them, just then talking. And we think we do that through the interactions of meetings and running into people on the halls, but there's nothing like just having dedicated time with your boss. Well, speaking of bosses and managers and so forth, the advice, the teaching that you do with your book isn't just for people who already have big jobs. We can practice leadership anytime anywhere, it can be in the family. It can be in a college meeting. This kind of leading through connecting is accessible and helpful to all. And I suspect that we have listeners out there who've heard you talk about this and are feeling inspired and maybe want to take some steps in this direction. Of course, one thing they should do is get the book, lead from the heart, transformational leadership for the 21st century by Mark C Crowley. So we do want them to remember this book is a wonderful book. But also for people who want to do something today as before we leave, Mark. Could you make some suggestions as maybe just a starting point for somebody who's out there and maybe wants to connect a little more with the people around him? I love that question. I'd say there's a couple. One that pops into my mind has to do with. So my premise is how you make people feel is what motivates their behavior. Good or bad. So if you neglect someone if you ignore them, you walk in and don't say anything to them, you're having an impact on how they're feeling. So what I try to do with I had a personal coach and she was sort of on to me at this point. If I hadn't written the book, I'm still in the corporate world, but she kind of picked up on, you know, who I was and she said, your goal from now on is to be incredibly conscious of leaving people better than you found them. And I just thought that was so powerful because it's so well aligned to what I'm trying to achieve. So if I send an email to someone, I'm very much conscious of how is what I'm saying going to make them feel. So that's one. Just think about how can I make somebody feel better in any experience that I have. So I travel a lot for speaking and I get in cars and I always talk to the Uber drivers or I talk everybody. It's just part of me, just to make people feel like you matter. And in that moment, they do matter, you know? And so that's one. And then the other is and this is sort of sounds so easy. And yet when you talk to people, they go, no, I don't get that very much. It's just thanking people. We think that we have to, when we tell an employee, good job, I'm really proud of you. This is wonderful. I'm so grateful. Thanks for getting this to me ahead of time. We think those are words that are equivalent to reaching into your pocket, like your wallet rather. It's going to cost you something. And what I found is, unless I go, Beverly, the greatest, I love you, Beverly Beverly Beverly Beverly, your wonderful. Nobody's going to do that in the real world. But this is how our fantasy works when they hear me say, you can not over appreciate people. So if somebody meets a goal for you today, when you go, hey, Beverly, that's fantastic. Thank you so much. That's awesome. And then they come in and they go, hey, I just had something happen. It's incredible. It's going to make you really happy. It's something I've been working on for a week now. And you go, well, I already thanked their release. I can just go, okay. Okay, good. And just let it go. And I'm saying, no, the more you appreciate people, the more you're going to get the behaviors you're looking for. And just make yourself a gracious and appreciative person and watch how people's behavior changes around you. That is wonderful advice. To end on our conversation today, people desperately need to be seen and acknowledged and they want to be wanted. So thank you so much for sharing that. It's been a wonderful conversation. Thanks for being here, Mark. This has been a true honor for me. So thank you so very much, Beverly. Today we've been talking with author Mark Crowley about how to lead successfully by leading from the heart. This podcast is produced by WOW public media. Adam rich is our audio engineer. I'm your host, Beverly Jones, author of find your happy at work. Today's tip is that people are more likely to accept your leadership if you recognize their individual strengths, and help them to develop those strengths. Thanks for listening to jazz about work. 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