Andrew Torres Hi Andrew, Michael Cohen, Sydney Powell discussed on The Daily Beans
And real life lawyer andrew torres hi andrew. Aj thanks for having me back. Yeah no problem. So i went over this crazy breaking news yesterday on the show for a bit and i promised i'd come back tomorrow and get in the weeds a little bit. And that's why. I have my favorite real life lawyer here to help me get in the weeds. Because you're very good at. We'd thanks. i think so. I think it is. I think it's important preliminarily to talk about sort of how little we know. And how strange this right. So what we have is a document that's been released because this case is It's twenty dash five but it's on the grand jury dock and grand jury proceedings are sealed. So i usually like as lawyer. Like the first thing i do is go log into pacer and get all the documents and share them with you. They're not otherwise made public. But you know that's how we got for example the text of Trump's pardon of michael. Flynn before anybody else had it right because having volume icus brief in that case i get a little notice that have popped up you know. As soon as sydney powell filed her motion to dismiss. So i can't access the stock. Nobody can access this docket other than the parties. That are the subject of the grand jury. Indictment that's come out and The did the doj lawyers who are pursuing this investigation. So that's kinda point. One point two is what we do not have. Here is an indictment what we have is a motion that was granted three months ago. Four that allows the government to review certain correspondents in connection with the grand jury proceedings and the correspondence that there. And so you know you might be thinking again Your listeners know this well from the excellent work. You did back when michael cohen's office was rain. April april two thousand eighteen. I remember because i was visiting the pentagon that day when the news came across my my inside the pentagon when i got the news That that cohen's office and hotel room. Because his house was being remodeled had been raided. Yeah and look like attorney client privilege super duper important to me as an attorney with clients right But there are two really important exceptions to climb privilege. There's the one that covered or failed to that applied in the instance of michael cohen Which is called the crime fraud exemption right. Which is you can seek legal advice from your lawyer but if the legal advice you're seeking is how to commit a crime that is no longer privileged great and there are good reasons for that And the other exception. The that comes into play in this case Is a third party exception. it's really really basic. So so here's the fence. Aj you engage me You know to a reputable for totally legitimate purposes. You wanna file a lawsuit against somebody. We need In my office or over the phone and and that's totally fine. That conversation So long as you were seeking legal advice and not committing by and not committing a crime is covered by attorney client. Also i can bring on My assistant i can bring on a paralegal can bring on an associate right. Doesn't even have to be a lawyer as long as they're an agent for me. That's the that's the key language acting as an agent for the attorney end similarly on on your side great lake if it's an agent for you if somebody acting on your behalf Then that maintains the privilege on your end but the minute if we're at a baseball game and there's somebody sitting next to us and i start talking to me. You know in in the good old days back when people went to sporting events in public Can tell how long. I've been using these examples but right like we're we're out in public And there's somebody air A third party if we start talking about your case that invalidates the privilege that breaks the privilege. 'cause the third party in the world right and and i think in this particular case what happened. Was these emails. These were forwarded to third party who is not an agent of the legal team of either party and is just considered a third party non lawyer and therefore waves. If from what i can tell through through all the red actions. They say this person's not an agent of the lawyer isn't on the defense team and therefore is a third party and therefore your client tourney privileges waived so you can put at the bottom of your email and they i think they retroactively from my understanding. Change the subject line of emails to say this is covered by attorney client privilege. You can say that all day but the minute you release that information to a third party you are Effectively waving your right to attorney client privilege to claim that as a reason for this stuff to not be entered into evidence right. Yes yes so. So so so so i ll be let me just say that is exactly right. Like that's footnote each where they renamed the documents to add in You know that these were attorney client privilege and you are a hundred percent correct. It's one of the first things you learn as a baby lawyer. Doing these kinds of privilege reviews is just because it says attorney client privilege doesn't mean that is yeah and and also consciousness of guilt here retroactively changing email subjects to include the tag the delta. The designation is is what determines of attorney client privilege. So the timeline of this. My understanding from the partial and ceiling order that barrel. How signed is it back on august. Twenty eighth the court said hey department of justice. You have ninety days. I'm going to release this. You send me your reductions and the ninety days was up. I believe November i think november twenty fifth or something like that and november twenty sixth on the day before the last day. I think that that was feasible. The the department of justice filed a motion submitted. A status report requesting can we. Can we please keep this under. Seal you guys. There's people in here who have not been charged by the grand jury and they did not suggest any redaction they just said we don't want to do it and judge how said sorry. Charlie now you have. Until november thirtieth by an order on november twenty fifth you have until november thirtieth. I'm doing this. You need to give me the reductions. We'll redact the people's names when you take people's names out of the mix. You are no longer revealing identities of individuals and conduct that has not been charged by the grand jury so redact all that shit sent back to me. And i'm releasing it because a lot of people were like ooh interesting. It was released the day after fluid you know the week..