Boris Johnson, Christopher Sabatini, Dominic Cummings discussed on Monocle 24: The Monocle Daily


And these were those. Those hand picked coterie. So it's constantly there is they're not accepting their legitimacy they're rejecting the consensus of the international community. There is you say this abyss of that. The country is looking at right now of st conflict and political divide. Just finally. i'm not. You will be relieved to hear going to ask you to predict the future. But what will you be looking out for in the next. Few days is a kind of indication of where this might be heading. I would look i to some reaction by the international community to call for a relatively rapid and consensus based elections. They need to step up right. Now it's a sad statement of eighty that so much is dependent on what happens outside the country in terms of both in terms of money in terms of consensus. Billy like i would look to a popular reaction to unreas- appointment. We'll have to see what they say. There's also an acting senate president around who is claiming that he should be president. So you have three competing alternative leaders and it's very important that this country get back on track and hold elections as soon as possible with a core group of a trustworthy leaders. That may not happen but avoiding any potential spread. Conflict is going to end on that process being set in motion. christopher sabatini from chatham house. Thanks for us well. Let's go back to our studio panel now and we will start with the uk where accused may already be forming outside popcorn. Dispensaries ahead of this evening's broadcast of a major bbc interview with dominic. Cummings the now estranged brain of prime minister. Boris johnson the highlights released in advance. Same congress with dominant motif of coming statements before during and since his time in downing street all ye that he was right about everything everyone else was wrong and all would be much better. If only they had listened. Terry first of all it is so strange watching reactions. Dominic cummings because obviously the very people who not long ago were claiming him. As a new reducible villain. Irredeemable i think was the widows looking for their irredeemable villain whose word for anything could not be taken on now. Of course all saying this is obviously the absolute truth about boris johnson and indeed vice versa. How much faith would you personally put in the veracity of coming statements. I i think he was there. He was in the room with boris. Johnson he does on certain occasions have know the texts in the. What's that messages. That he says backup The things that the prime minister told him. I mean we saw this with the matt. Hanko thing I think we're kind of this kind of fascination of you know the the end of the wizard of is when they can pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. We suddenly see what's going on behind the curtain and everybody kind of know wants wants to But i think the trouble is he is his. You know you say. The rusty is undermined by the fact that he's got to go back and change his story about things many times for instance in ever fully come onto the whole barnard castle incident where he traveled off during lockdown. When he wasn't supposed to he gave one story in the downing. Street's garden In the summer and and told us that it was all about in a his his children know what about the illness and later on when he was in front of the select committee in parliament. He gave a completely different version of that story. Saying that it was all to do with security. And if there's one thing that people many people remember about what government was doing during lockdown and what the people around the prime minister doing it was it. Was that whole story of that bizarre trip. And so i think you know what he says has to be taken with a bit of skepticism because in a he has said different things at different times joins. What's your best guess as to dominate. Cummings motivations for his he's post downing street truth telling is is he on a genuine mission to educate and enlighten the public about the dysfunction at the top of government or is he basically just one of your drama enthusiasts. I mean i think it's very curious andrew because if you think about his time when he really was close sense of power he was tried to keep as low profile. Easy as he could he was largely a figure who was whose activities were followed by political journalists and and now Out of office. And i would suggest actually with extremely limited influence over events. He seems to be trying to be the center of attention. But i think For somebody who has had as far as we know a huge influence on the political life of this country in the last five years particularly the brexit referendum and the substantial conservative election. Victory in two thousand nineteen. He seems i think to me misjudging. The situation. I'm not sure how many people i think people think this is interesting. It's hit lighting is gossip. I'm not sure how many people really care about what he's got to say for a modest one of the oddities of this whole thing terry and there are a great many authorities about it is the very fact. Well there's there's two auditees intend to me this. The very fact that dominic cummings got to the position he got. And there's the fact that at least by cummings own admission. He thinks that's all they was his recent testimony of course to mp's in which he actually said something to the effect that frankly these bizarre that somebody of his moralist total absence of qualifications ended up kind of running the country. I think what his skills are such they are. They are those campaigner campaigner. I mean he. He was one of the main people in the vote. Leave campaign setting the strategy. People didn't think it was going to win and and did go and hadn't been one of the things. I find really curious about this moment. Dominant coming in his blogs and so forth talks about the importance of having grand strategy. He talks about you. Know sort of theoretical physics moon shots and so forth. And i don't understand what his personal grand strategy is in this apart from absopure revenge and bringing down boris johnson. I mean be owns the brookdale. The tv interview. Where does he go from here because know that was that was what he did. He ran campaigns but having shown how chaotic this all is. Would you haunt him to to run your campaign something else in the future. I'm not sure that i would. You may just be one of those people in there are a bewildering number of them. And i think they do do a great deal of damage the that class of person who would always much rather fight than win. They want the conflict not the result but the question. That's going to come up again james. It's been asked about boris johnson. Many many many many times the answer so far is always be no Is any of this going to damage the prime minister even the bit. The one leaped out of the trial. Highlights of johnson having to be talked out of his weekly audience with the queen by people explaining that you know what going to spend time in confined quarters with a woman in her s at the height of an airborne pandemic might not be the wisest maneuver. And it certainly doesn't just. This is the point known as making. It's difficult to see who cares them. I if you look at the opinion polls such you know the conservative government who have been empower in one former for eleven years..

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