Read many stories about news innovators in europe and the united states. But what is it like to lounge digital bone outlet in the global south. What are those challenges and opportunities for funders who take the plunge in those countries. Our guest today is one of those founders. He's name is tiny gut. He was editor chief. John one of argentina's newspapers and in two thousand seventeen. He laughed to find rhodesian one of the most innovative examples of digital newspapers in the global south today china will talk about membership human journalism and social empathy and how to measure success of audience participation chine- welcome and thank you for being with us today. Thank you very much thirty for this invitation for having here. I'm regulatory audience of this podcast. So pleasure and a privilege to be thanks. Thank you so much. So i want to start with a personal question. What did you do. Why did you leave a good secure job at an established newspaper to lounge a small new startup. that's a person in question and to make the long story short. I would say i when i was twenty seven year. Old longtime ago any flow very particular path. Down there are a decider graphic. satoru Decided rector innovation director and finally eighteen chief and twenty one is at the company and for years eight chief. I decided to step down And i would say sort of to change the nature of of my challenges. Of course it was a big and beautiful challenge to lead that talented newsroom of almost two hundred people And we work and we do have a lot of fun and success in bringing into the twenty first century Great media brand Born in the nineteenth century But on the other hand today i feel that is also an enormous and also beautiful challenge to create a new media bencher from scratch So to bringing a small but also very talented team That by building this this new media we are trying to answer some essential questions to to our craft journalism and also to me. So how can we acknowledge the the media fatigue And media avoidance phenomenon for example. Or or how can we cover the most pressing social issues we face as society and covered in a different way and probably the most interesting question. A how does this. But equally experience of the twenty first century people's participation can affect journalism. So i would say that the coral of of We are trying to hook like the broadcast. One way or the model per line that was born with us media And he's one of the challenges. Our industry spacey facing. I'm sorry it wasn't short. The the answer but i have two more things to say. There is almost no secure job now. Our industry I think everything is at risk An acknowledging daddy. I think it's a good thing on the other hand. I believe that in the end. I guess That why i step down being there to of great media. Well i guess it has to do a lot with a very personal calling on that I read a sentence which i found very very interesting. What you said. Human journalists can rebuild social empathy. Can you explain to us what it means Yes we believe that the problems we are facing us society. The challenges are very complex and of course Demands complex many times complex solutions and we are not going to find those solutions without an open dialogue between institution politicians and citizens So pariah station. For example. it's it's it's almost the name of the social conversation today at is preventing us to find those solutions. An in-depth sense. i believe. Journalism has an important role in terms of showing Other words helping us understand other opinions For amd we'd take this very seriously advocates axiom. So we been trying sort of new full matz that help how to help us our own To have more empathy with different lives people that lives in a different way of thinking in a different way than myself So it has to do with how we build a more robust set citizenship. That helps that public dialogue to evolve and on find real solutions. Gus dose dilutes might should have at the end semaine back in personal and institutional decisions