Thanks for tuning in now. Later on in the program we'll chat with the novelist johnnym grain about his new thrilla about an arctic deal between china greenland that upsets the sensibilities of washington and one donald trump. Stay with us for that. But i why afghanistan has not damaged. Us credibility will the chaotic us withdrawal. It's certainly been a talking point around the world in the past fortnight hasn't it and the conventional wisdom it's been intoxicating. It blames joe baden for the humiliation. The foreign policy hawks the diplomatic community the mainstream newspaper columnists many of them pass guests on radio national. They all say that baden's military withdrawal and the talibans triumph. That represents an unmitigated disaster that will damage or destroy us credibility in the world. He's prominent neo conservative columnist brit stevens in the new york times quote every ally taiwan ukraine the baltic states israel japan. That will draw the lesson that it's on its own. He's the distinguished australian commentator. Paul kelly quote this capitulation will leave the us weaker. Not stronger well. My guest today disagrees the. us led mission was doomed. He says and the tragic outcome in afghanistan will not affect us credibility much. Maybe not at all john. Measham is professor of political science at the university of chicago. He's many prominent books. Include the tragedy of gripe power politics. Hi there john. Welcome back to between the lines. I'm glad to be here tom. Well the baden administration's been university blamed for an embarrassing defeat. You think these judgment is unfair. Incorrect haussa. Let's take the two key words in your question. One is embarrassing to his defeat. Defeat of course is the keyword. Who's responsible for this defeat. And the answer is that the bush administration is responsible because it was the george w bush administration that got us into this war and got us on this endeavor to do nation building in afghanistan to turn afghanistan into a liberal democracy that was mission impossible. There was no way that was going to work. And in effect the bush administration consigned us to this forever war that we could not win so they bear responsibility for what you see happening today. Obama trump and biden. Were all committed to ending this war because they understood. There was no way that we could win it now. Trump and biden together. Play the key roles in ending. This trump reached an agreement in february twenty twenty with the taliban that allowed by this year to pull all forces out but neither trump nor biden is responsible for the defeat..