Bloomberg, China, Peter Waldman discussed on Bloomberg Businessweek


Thirty seconds, yield two point oh, eight percent gold up six tenths of one percent. Again, the SNP up seven now are by three tenths of one percent. I'm Charlie Pellett. And that is a Bloomberg business flash. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Massar and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg radio. All right. Well, let's dig into this week's cover story. It's a good one and getting a lot of attention on the Bloomberg. And on Bloomberg dot com Waldman wrote it in. It's about Carol the US purging Chinese Americans from top cancer research. This is a new front in a way in what really is escalating into a decoupling feels like of the US and China. We talk about it in as it relates to trade. But now we're talking about it as it relates to science and research, and cancer research, specifically Peter joins us from our nine sixty studio in San Francisco. Peter first congrats on the story. It's a great read. Tell us how you got onto this in the first place. Sure a source out here in the Chinese American community mentioned that tensions were high that people were afraid of primarily FBI scrutiny that, that be I'd been poking around, particularly with scientists and engineers concern. Turned about filching IP and other sorts of proprietary information. And this individual said something was brewing at MD Anderson down in Houston. Yeah. And the Andersen obviously is a incredibly well, none. I mean, really the center of so much of this research, and so, take us there, help us understand this specific case sure, MD Anderson is every year, if not the top the number two cancer center in the United States, they do tremendous amount of research, handle, huge numbers of patients, usually very complicated cases, people who are going there, after perhaps, not having as much success closer to their homes at from all over the world. I mean, from foreign countries, you know, if you've got the money to get there, you're going there, because it's the best of the best it's premier cancer center without a doubt for that reason, they also have a lot of federal research dollars close to one hundred and fifty million dollars a year supporting their basic cancer research by scientists that Anderson just from the national institutes of health. Primarily through the through the NCI the National Cancer Institute. And that means the feds have, you know, a lot of influence there and throughout the academic research world, of course. But last summer, the national institutes of health director guy named Francis Collins very well. Respected guy started sending out letters to recipient institution throughout the country, saying, we're very concerned about people working in, in US academic institutions doing research taking federal dollars for their research and while doing research overseas or having undisclosed relationships with institutions overseas. He didn't mention China and his initial letter. But everybody assumed that, that was the primary target of this. And sure enough in the fall, and I started sending out individual letters to institutions asking about specific people that they had re learned did have extensive ties in China with research, institutions or getting dollars. From Chinese government, sources or wherever while working in the US on an I h grants, you know, I'm listening to I had a sister who worked at MD. Anderson also Memorial Sloan Kettering, you know, these are places that are known, and she was involved in research, and, you know, there's a flow of information, not just across the country, but across the world. And, you know, you think about the world we're living in data research, the outcome is only better by the more data, you have in the more input, you have right, that's crucial. It kind of can't have borders. When you're trying to find the solution to various ailments, certainly within the medical world and arena. So you do wonder about with these trade tensions, what that means for something like cancer research going forward. Well, that's a great segue into the actual focal point of my story, who's a, which is a researcher name, she phone. Woo Hoo was extremely accomplished epidemiologist for a while. She was the chair of epidemics, allergy at MD Anderson, and she was famous sort of in the world of cancer epidemiology for putting together these extrordinary databases, which they call cohort studies, which track a number of people hundreds of thousands of cancer patients with very specific information about them. So you could see, you know, what sort of DNA markers. They had how that responded with certain tumors to certain chemotherapies and these were gold mine, and she was famous for putting these cohorts together and the one of the reasons they were so powerful was because she had a huge context in China and work with a lot of colleagues, they're putting all this data together in order to study this stuff. So she was a highly accomplished epidemiologist at. MD Anderson, and she ended up resigning in January after this investigation launched by the NIH, by the way, it was through the FBI the FBI was the instrument of the investigation. We're speaking with Peter Waldman. He's got the cover story of this week's business week magazine. So what are the implications of this, where do we go from here? Not just in this specific case, but as Carol mentioned, me, this goes to the heart of how research is done globally play this out for us. Peter sure there are two levels. I think when we talk about where this is going. One is exactly the one you described, which is research, and particularly basic science, globalization of basic science, and how people are pooling ideas and data from all over the world. Scientists no, no international boundaries certainly with the internet. And when someone has a piece of the puzzle overseas. They want to work with them so that in this could well chill. That's particularly between the US and China without. Doubt this will chill collaborations. I had several people. Tell me about that. But the second thing I want to get to very quickly as overall civil rights picture for Chinese Americans in their concern about FBI scrutiny. Well to be fair. I mean has the government always kind of watched our India can keep coming after World War, Two in the Cold War, you know, in various scientists who come over from either Europe or so, and so forth has they're always been some oversight? Well, absolutely the that, you know. We have lots of adversaries and have historically in and the government doesn't want to share too much with them. Just look at all the export controls on the eastern bloc for so long and still today on Iran and other places. But none of those countries had more than five million people working, thriving, integrated into American society as Chinese Americans are today. Well, it's a great story and certainly poses a lot of important questions at a time where we are trying to figure out as a country as a world how this all fits together discussions here at being Mellon. Pershing's Insite conferences, this whole idea of open source and everybody's sharing information to really figure out solutions that you kind of need that it's a great cover to how not to cure cancer. Check it out. It's on newsstands as we speak on the Bloomberg. And of course at Bloomberg dot com. Peter Waldman is the author of that story. He joined us from our nine sixty studio in San Francisco, cutting up, we're gonna get into the. The world of high network. Yeah. Exactly. And how wealth is transferring from one generation to the next this is Bloomberg. Let's.

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