Listen: London, Osmond Con, Boris Johnson discussed on Today in Focus
"So the first thing I will assure video with you. The three men grappling each other on London. Bridge woman had a fire extinguisher. That was Smoke or steam. mm-hmm lusting around this one individual. Who saw falling to the floor? And then there was the long shop implement jabbing him and it really confusing is really chaotic. They used fire extinguishers these chairs they use these novel tusks ripped off the wall in the heat of the moment going coming on and then you realize plea wrestling with one tall bearded man because I knew it was on London. Bridge had these awful. Oh echoes of what happened. Two years ago and visiting thought was gosh. This is another terror incident happening in exactly the same place. What Guardians Home Affairs correspondent Jamie Grayson is describing is the end of a terror attack in which five people were stabbed and to Saskia Jones? And Jack Merit Merritt Killed The fact that the attacker was a convicted terrorist released halfway through. His sentence has led to a stalk debate about whether our justice system system is fit for purpose. Boris Johnson has promised to coney in crackdown on sentencing. But David Merrit says his son. Jack believed in rehabilitation tation. Not Revenge from the Guardian. I'm initially Donna today in focus. How should we respond to the London? Bridge terror attack attack. We now know that the murderer who was lying hang on London Bridge Shot Dead By police pictured with a tag around. His Ankle was Osmond Con. He went to jail in two thousand and twelve twelve. What had he been doing before? That calm was arrested at the age. Nineteen in late twenty ten for his role in Al Qaeda inspired terrorism plot. The plot involved him and eight others developing plans to set up a madrassa or a school training camp out in Kashmir and the plan was to to get recruits out to that camp and train them for terrorist activities back in the UK and among that group nine they had discussed sites and targets in the UK which included the London. Sundin Stock Exchange. What we do knows that? He was mixed up in extremism activities as young as fourteen. At least he was absorbing this material and he was also trying to Sharat with others and preach the message out in the streets as well and clearly he came to the attention of the authorities. Do we know how they discovered what the great was was dating. The community in steak was raising concerns about not just him as an individual by the degree say he was hanging out with he was also a supporter. Remember Emba had links to a now banned terror. Group called Al Muhajiroun which was led by the infamous street. Preacher anjem Chowdhry Blah submission submission to God. He was running stalls out tin local community and they were offering things like Islamic literature leaflets CDs. DVD's that sorta stuff around the time. And he was imposing street preaching activities. Tees BBC Midlands interviewed him tonight that he was a terrorist of any kind of the community knows me and he will know if you ask them will know these labeled they put onto that tabbies dino. I know terrorist so we know that it is quite well known figure in the area. We know that he was actually actually arrested by police so we can be fatty show. That was around this time that he was brought attention of skilled services and they would have been monitoring him and probably for good year. We'll say up to the point of his arrest. What did they charge him? Where then what we know about the court case? The court case is complicated and he was originally charged with the moist. ICED serious terror events. You can be charged with which is preparing acts of terrorism in that is punishable by life in prison but he did deny that the defendants were allowed. Some included. Goodyear hearing allows the judge to discuss with the legal teams. What's the sentence? Might look like back it. They would just plead guilty and so- condescended to plead guilty to a revised version of that charge and it was revised into focusing what he was alleged to have done in relation to Pakistan so ultimately he was charged with trying to fund madrassas in Kashmir. That could have been training terrorists arrests but not where plotting to for example attack the London Stock Exchange exact yet that was what he ultimately pleaded guilty to much of the debate. That we're hearing now is around his sentence. What was that initially? He was sentenced under a regime designed to give dangerous prisoners a minimum term but no maximum term and it was used when life sentences went available to them and in case he was given a minimum term of eight years. Mine stood daisy did remind which is four hundred and eight. The regime was introduced by the Labour government in the mid two thousand and it was later proven to be a disastrous policy. Intended the fact that these people were put in prison for minimum periods with no new release date and it was intended for the most dangerous vendors but it was widely used their examples of people who had stolen mobile phones being jailed under this type of sentence since two in ten eleven twelve thirteen years in some cases because basically there's no maximum term in order to protect society from people who are considered to be dangerous exactly exactly so in the end it was much walis expected. They thought that it would be applied to three hundred four hundred cases and ended up rocketing up to nine thousand plus the Conservative Survey Party in two thousand twelve decided that scrap it. But actually the focus in this case isn't that original open-ended term. It's y call was later let out of prison. And that's because he appealed and a judge changed it for a so called extended sentence sentence that had a time limit in his case of sixteen years. But also and I think this is the really controversial point and automatic released from prison at the halfway mark. So con- was let out of jail after eight years to serve the rest of his sentence within society on the Parole Board wasn't involved in that decision. Why did the previous Labor government introduced that type of sentence in the middle of the two thousands? The prison population was sobering prisons overcrowded and the pro bowl was overwhelmed. And this was a way of alleviating some of that bird on face bodies cost-cutting some cost-cutting. Yep Yep but there is evidence to show. That being rehabilitated in the community is more effective than being rehabilitated in prison so it was element as well. Okay well we're gonNA come to what went wrong at each step of the journey for Osmond calm but just before we dead Boris Johnson and his Home Secretary Pretty Patel have repeatedly sad add that Labor is to blame for Osmond con sentence and released. Is that correct no. They're not right to blame labor entirely the court of Appeal at time time could kept him on that same sentence he would still have been seven that sentence this day and he would have been subject to pro ports assessments to determine whether or not he could have been released days. They did change the rules late states. You're released at the two thirds point with Parole Board assessment. But I think things really important is that Johnson and Patel's focus. This is entirely currently on sentencing early release. And it's avoiding conversation or discussion around much broader factors which apply to Khan's case right so not just sentencing. What actually happens? When someone's in prison and then afterwards in terms of probation monitoring and rehabilitation tation house territory affected those areas? We know that since two thousand ten miniature justices budget has been cut by around forty percents If it it is not the My significant cut to a departmental budget sunny one at the my significant custody departmental budget. Let's talk about him getting into prison. He was sent to Belmarsh prison. which has been reports about problems with radicalization we radicalization grooming by an Islamic radicalism? Within that jail. We know that prisoners spend significant period two times in South South that up to twenty two twenty three hours a day. So there's very little rehabilitative activists access to workshops educational programs. We we."