Peter Kozodoy Talks About How Great Leaders Use Brutal Honesty to Succeed
What an honor to have you on dose of leadership. Welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to be a rich excited for your stuff man. This brutal honesty. Thing is is something that i've it's one of my pet peeves particularly in the world of business but managed just seemed like it's something that so needed and so lacking in everywhere we look. Right it depends. I've had folks say to me like you're out here championing strategic brutal honesty as if that's going to help in meanwhile i turn on tv. And i see scandal after scandal in both the public and private sector. And they're like so. Obviously it doesn't work. And i'm like no no obviously it does. Yeah look at all of the scandals that we now know about that. Twenty thirty fifty years ago. We had no idea that is honesty and transparency at work. That's the whole point. Is that you know how does a leader achieve outcomes in the twenty first century where everyone has a smartphone. Where everything's being recorded you know. Some way are In a world like that the entire point is that it will no longer pay to do anything but be honest and transparent and the evidence. That is all around us. Yeah what things i appreciated. I agree with you hundred percent and one things i truly got. My listeners have heard me say this cal time on the show but one of the great takeaways. I got from the marine corps. It was a very brutally honest when it worked. Well it was firing. All cylinders are brutally honest culture. Meaning i walk in the work. And say i look like a bag of doughnuts. There was no whispering it was in your face. Get out of here. You'll like a bag of doughnuts and go fix whatever i mean and i love that. I love that kind of you know out in the open standards expectations. And if you don't live up to them you're going to get called out. And i think there's something to be said for that. Yeah in culture after culture that a profile in the book and honest to greatness. I show that you know essentially cultures that get out of their own way. You remove that sense of ego removed the self-doubt and really get to brass tacks. What happens is they're far. More efficient shouldn't be rocket science to anyone. Writes like if we're not farting around figuring out how to sidestep in around cathy's ego than we can get a lot more done. You know what i mean. It's not i say in the book think said my tedtalk is. There's all kinds of research showing that positive reinforcement works right like positive as reinforced people. That's what helps people who Come together and she better. Let's not confuse the truth here. The reason why that's true is because of our delicate egos that does not mean that. If we can remove our delicate he goes and have the culture you described where we can just actually be brutally honest. That actually is the more efficient way to go. Did you see what i'm saying. I know exactly what you're saying. It you the whole. I have used the term. I love the turtle honesty. And i've used that a lot in in my coaching and even when i was consulting an organization that twelve month gig i used that word a and then i was had somebody on my show and i can't remember who it was and they did not like the word brutal because it gave these images of people's feelings getting hurt or people kinda cowering in the corner And they almost argued that the term brutal honesty kind of reinforces the kind of the dominant culture. That's kind of the metoo movement as has effectively exposed. What are your thoughts when you hear me say that. Yeah that's that's one of the most important questions and let's unpack that. As i started down this road which by the way surprise me like it should be a shock to anyone that meet like if anyone knew me in high school i am the guy talking about like brutal honesty and transparency and all this crap that would be a shock to anyone right so say if i can learn this anyone can but one of the things that happened started writing. Speaking about this people were like. Oh wow fantastic brutal honesty. I'm brutally honest. I just tell it like it is. I don't care. And i look at them like. Oh that's cool. That's not really honesty. That's just you being an asshole right. That's a different thing. And i think one of the one of the things i needed to do right out of the gate has redefined. Honesty even means in front of you read the book like i spend the entire book really weaving through that explanation. Because it's not as simple as you might think One of the ceos makes a great point. Says if you're flying in an airplane you're aviator so you're going to get this one rich. You're flying in an airplane and pilots come over the intercom and they say well folks that we've never seen stormclouds like that before. So please a buckle your seatbelts. Not quite sure if we're gonna get burned to the ground but we're going to try our hardest. Is it honest. Yeah maybe but is it helpful. No right honesty is only as good as the trust that it creates in the outcomes that achieves so one of the things i had to do was re define honesty and in sometimes does mean being brutally honest with right. Hey i messed up. i'm sorry. Hey demand by giving the direct feedback. It's not pretty so on and so forth. Sometimes that is the best thing. And there are many instances in my book of leaders and organizations who who took that route got brutally honest with their vendors with their customers with their partners and investors right right but other times rich very important we need to be brutally honest about others.