Mark Driscoll, Evangelical Church, Calvin Decamp discussed on Theocast - Reformed Theology
Something more substantial and then comes along mark driscoll who is. He's bright. he's smart he's inciteful. he's a big personality. he's an engaging speaker. He says the quiet part out loud. He's antagonistic against the things that many of us had wrestled with and kinda hated ourselves and then man like he really taps into something and it's not a mystery historically circumstantially as to why more exploded like it did and why he became such a larger than life persona and personality in the evangelical church. And so that that definitely happened and there's a lot of fallout from that And there's a lot of other stuff that that flows out of that that we're going to get to now. But i started kick us off with that observation. It's not surprising. It makes a ton of sense when you think about it historically and logically But now let's talk. Maybe more about some other significant thoughts that we have in ways that we want interact with content Yeah it system. I had someone describe it as kind of like a car. Crash is hard to turn away. Hit hard to look away and I i remember. I've heard i had several people. Tell me about it and a really wasn't interested in listening to it. At the moment. I and then i was driving one day and i was like having to listen to. I guess i'll see what this is about. And i couldn't stop listening. Welds well produced. It is well done And then it it kind of Got to that moment. Where i i was taken back. There was so much i didn't know. I obviously aware of mark driscoll obviously aware of his ministry early on in my in when i was in seminary there was this big Debate between him and macarthur and And i was there for all of that and the I appreciate it a lot of the emphasis that you could see. More kind of regaining. Some traction as a related to godliness being standing up for women Standing up for the truth of the gospel So some of the material that. I engaged in i. It's not. it's not how i would probably say it's not how i would necessarily communicate it but i appreciated that. There was somebody who was you know how to platform and was communicating. Things that needed to be communicated and i kind of list left it at that and then as the years went on i you know. I remember reading his marriage book and that's when i went. Oh wow this. This is not good. This is and You know i at that point. I had been really engaging covenant theology and reform theology and so mark really didn't fit that that that brand. He was definitely a part of kind of the the young. Russell's the neo calvin est calvinism or the young restless reform movement which. I wasn't really intrigued by that movement. I would i was that seemed like there. They dare history of how how far back they read was was not far back enough and So when i when. I first engaged the marriage book. That's when i became pretty concerned and not really a big fan of his anymore and anybody who had asked me about his ministry. I would say yeah not not not a little concerned about how he decides to communicate things that seemed to be very very umbilical. But that's the initial reaction. When when when i started into the podcast i had no idea you know how bad it really was. And i know there's a lot of people that have been hurt in and yeah. This is pretty shocking. For a lot of people you know is that's my first initial dots. Patrick loved to hear from us. Well yes my journey with things. I grew up fairly calvinistic and abbas long process of kind of figuring out. How exactly put those pieces together. That really come all the way together. Until i went to westminster and got some of the categories that they gave me like confessional ism and ordinary means of grace and things started cutting together things like that. Yeah but until then it was kind of jumping from guy to guy within the calvin decamp trying to make sense of these different things and finding different things that resonated and kind of glomming onto that for a while until something didn't work and then find the next guy And so just was a big part of that for me. I'm in my college years and right after that Loved all the stuff that everybody else loved right. I love that. He was willing to say things that other people wouldn't say it pushed back against kind of traditional legalism right and they called. You know you can't drink you can't dance. Those kinds of things had an edge to it. It was a right. Yeah and it also wasn't the soft and fluffy right eva's stuff to it was. It seemed like a third way at a different way off for somebody who didn't have all those reformed confessional categories. It looked like this might be. This might be the thing. I've been looking for and trying to put my finger on. It really was until. I got to westminster and started to get some of those categories where all started to click in some of the stuff i saw coming out of marceau and driscoll started to rub their own way like oh. This seems a couple of degrees off. Yeah so i'm going to go. I'm gonna give just a couple of my. You guys have done this. I haven't yet. I wanna talk just viscerally for a second. And then i want to move into my first big like theological like pastoral concern in listening to this so i found that in listening to this content. I often was listening to it. When i was like riding my bike or working. Out or something and I had so many like audible out loud moments listening to this where something would be said. I mean a clip of driscoll. Speaking or something. And i had an audible reaction with my ear buds in my ears like if somebody had walked by me or something they'd be like what is that guy listening to So it hit hard right. And i'll just go and say this. I think some of my most visceral responses were In the episode to two things the episode about women John you mentioned this. I i think there's a great irony in this this driscoll thing where he early on was saying things that i think at least on the surface appear to be In attempt to protect women from week men and from men. That would harm them. But then the the heartbreaking sort of ironic turn in. This is that it seems to me that so much of what was created by mark and what he was advocating and what ended up happening at mars hill ended up being a culture that was very abusive toward women and actually ended up the meaning. Them unintentionally in very significant ways and i was greatly perplexed by so many things that i heard in particular in that episode.