Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, Bill Mckeever discussed on Apologetics Live
To go into different directions and stuff. But I've heard I won't say it on air, but I've heard some other reasons. Well, part of part of the fact is that in that particular area, by the way, that temple is the first Mormon temple, most feel, we think it's the one Salt Lake City Salt Lake City was was the second temple built first one started is is my understanding that or it's reversed. But the this temple in Mantar is that area around Mantar is the least from what I understand the least Mormon area in Utah. And a lot of people think it's because all the Vangelis and that goes on because of this, this pageant, they have because you get a thousand Christian, you get hundreds of Christians of Angelides into thousands of moments. Yeah. It's, it's really something. I mean, the Christians have a prayer meeting, they, they pray their Vangelis causing that there's approaches that I don't agree with, but that's okay, say anything would I'd like to do is go there, and I like to pick off the hecklers. So we'll have like Ehrich evolve LA he'll get up and do open air. And so I'll go and to stand thirty feet away from him. And that's it. He's usually sees me there. There's not, you know, then things to get it before the years. He knows. I'm there if anybody's gonna start hassling him, depending on the situation, if it's a good heckling interchange continue because he can use that. But if they're just being difficult and obstreperous than I'll go in and intercept them so that he could be free to continue preaching and teaching me doing that. Matt steals, my heckler. And when when you do it. I go, I go, you know. Yeah. Last year met didn't realize 'em sitting there. I get this guy. I'm not trying to bring them in as a heckler build a crowd, and mattress, looks and goes, I guess, question and just pull them off too. I was like, what are you doing? What was your technique? It's all good. That was like Andrews, not answering the question. I have the answer. I, I will purposely not answer, some people's question when I do open air because it gets their voice louder. And that's what I wanna get. So I like ignore certain questions. I'm ignoring the question was like, well, I can answer that for you. It's like dude I was working on it for like ten minutes. Yeah. Let me figured out. Work. We okay good. You know, and that's okay. It's people wanna help. There's a saying that Bill mckeever introduced me to Bill mckeever, the founder and director of Mormonism research ministry. But our Bill says eight you clean your own fish. If you're talking to somebody don't go jumping in their conversation. It's rude. A lot of excitement there. There's a lot of energy going there. There's a lot of confusion and things like that, that, just what it is. You know, nothing's perfect and people make mistakes. I certainly have others. Have, you know so, but it's a good witnessing environment. It really is. You know, one of the things I like about Mantar is you. And I both worked on a book called Sharon good news with Mormons, which is now out for one year, and it's twenty four different people. You and I are two of the twenty four authors with twenty four different tactics. Different ways of sharing the gospel with with Mormons. I should say churches, grace, Lardy saints. I should say because we're not suppose they don't wanna be Mormon anyway, got new revelation. They're again, they're going to change name their choir. But we end up seeing is. When you go to Mantar you get to see really what we see in that book, sharing the news, Mormons, because there's all these different people doing different things last year, I saw, and that was the first time I've ever seen this. There was people that actually I saw a couple of things that we're first time, there was a girl who was watching different people do different ways of sharing the gospel. She just put a little sign out that said you get candy if you can sit against the wall for three minutes, and she's or pole and you had to stand on a right angle, and she would have all these teenagers just trying to sit there in and stay for three minutes. Get a piece of candy and she had them for three minutes to sharing the gospel with them talking about how you You know. know they're trying to hold themselves up by their own standard and it doesn't work. It's better to Technica show you using one day because there was this grass area, and you had a guy in a headlock, and you're this little New Testament, you're trying to shove it down his thrive ever. Something that, okay? First off, I, I wouldn't do a headlock. It would be a chokehold second off mental. Yeah. That was the fundamentals. We, we actually get people who come out there that are they too will claim their Mormon of Angelides in the Mormons. We get the fundamentalists. So what are the differences with some of the fundamentalists and what we only think of with Mormons. Well, there's even more than groups. There's over a hundred different groups that used to book of Mormon and offshoots of Mormonism. So you'll find that are group's. And then you got to figure out what it is that particular group holds too and, and it doesn't make it onto figure things out there some odd groups around there as well. It really is a great with environment. For those of you who might be interested in attending, you know, you can meet you in Salt Lake you know, we could arrange things on the way down there to Mantar, but it is a great environment just picture Christians from all over that you've never seen before, and you're talking to them, or just listening to them, and they're doing things in a way that you might not consider as being appropriate for yourself or which had a thought of it that way. It just there's the gambit is there and it is a commodity. Right away with Christians. And, you know, I it's really neat. It really is. So if you wanna go. There was someone we're mentioning ally. Mentioned the book tactics, and Greg cocoa runs a ministry called stand to reason they had someone out last year, and who came out and did son. I was the first time I had seen this that what, what she did was just 'cause like I was saying, there's so many different people with different different ideas. So the person's Amy hall from Stanford, and what she did was just put a board just a whiteboard like. The big kind of like a cork board type thing with post its, and it was just give the reasons why you hold to which won't said, atheist, one said, Mormon. And just be were writing reasons. And as they would write the reason they stopped to, to write down why they're Mormon or why they're atheist and as they're writing it. She has time to see what they're writing and interact with it. She just gets them to stop and really, it was a form of voting of which one is more whether eighth Theus, or, or Mormon, and she really didn't care, which one whichever side, there, she was going to witness to either one of them, and it was just funny to watch how how she did that. And she came up with the wall, shoot down there. She's watching everybody and said, I wanna do something different. And that's the thing I like the most about being down. There is seeing the different ways people will will as you met hold a sign and you just walk around with a sign and start conversations. The sign is, is Mormonism Christian, and it's a big sign and is Christian dot com. Excuse me dot com. And it just takes you to the website is at the best way. I don't. I don't know. Is it not the best way? I don't know. Is it a different way? Yeah. It's different way. But, you know, several people will hold up these signs. And, and these things are readable from a thousand feet away. And so you, can, you know, that, that people are going to be going home later and just looking that up because I don't wanna talk anybody. So it's just it's just a not I'm not saying it's a better way. It's just another way that people witness out there. And, and so I was mentioning the fundamental Mormons and Charlie put a link here. The, the fundamentalist far those that still believe in polygamy. They believed that the Mormon church went awry by changing from polygamy, and I have met some of the folks there that with their multiple wives. Also, you do see that out there was a multiple life. Once. I'm waiting for this Eli, I'm, I'm waiting. Face face. What? Smith married. Like twenty six women. And so one did this several years, they would ask for women to dress in period attire, and where a sign saying, which wife of Joseph, they were. And they worked at talk to anybody. They just sat there and more come up and see, like twenty six women of varying ages. They try to kind of coordinate represented, you know, and this woman was this old that this young tried to do that it was very effective and the Mormons were very offended by it. Well offended because several of his Joseph Smith's wives were young teenagers. You got that, right. There was some of his wives were already married. Some of his wives were sisters there are there is one who is married to someone. He married the sister, and then married the married sister. So, yeah, there were he you know, he had very young wives. He had other people's wives. Now, one of the things that really's been hurting the Mormon church, I think, is something called the internet. Yeah. Darn the internet Bill and I talked Bill mckeever night talked about this. He noticed that about ninety six ninety six ninety seven year two after unit really became the internet that they started having problems with the Mormon in the Mormon church. In fact, there's a new phenomena out which I need to do. More research is called the new Mormonism and not show official category. But it's been hearings have been called in a new Mormonism is arising out of the problem that the internet and facts have caused so the book of Mormon has been changed. The doctrine code as has been altered, the archaeological evidence for Mormonism is just not there the documents legal documents against various prophets. You know, are there various things that are really problematic for Mormonism the, the mountain meadows massacre issue? Which I went two hundred fiftieth anniversary where it was where the Mormons killed over one hundred and twenty went men, women children murdered them that's another story, but nevertheless. Don't forget, much thought. Okay. So we're talking about the internet because we're talking to multiple wives and how that's really hurt. Yeah. So the new Mormonism and so what they're doing now is saying that the book of Mormon, these various things, they're not meant really necessarily to be all that archaeologically starkly accurate. But they are used by God to get you to feel his presence and are used as a door to truth, the spiritual round. So we have to worry about all the facts and contradictory information anymore. You just have to worry about that burning in your bosom burning in the most I called. You have the same situation. I, I don't wanna bring the conversation to the issue of methodology, but you have some Mormons actually using a this is. I think I direct response to the lack of evidence or contradictory evidence is there. They are using a sort of presupposition approach in which, you know, you can't just point to the evidence because they have their interpretive grid and someone speaking with Mormons, you'd kinda have to use a presupposition approach them 'cause appointing specifics just going to interpret it might of their, their ultimate commitment. So you want to be sensitive to that. Otherwise, you kind of run the same risk of talking with some atheist for you, just, you know, you're just piling evidence verse your evidence versus evidence, and it's just a never ending saga of comparing, who has the most will the internet really has. I mean, we is really done a lot damage to Mormon church, you, you have they used to deny Joseph Smith's, otherwise. As many of them, especially the younger ones, and other people's the ones that were married the internet revealed. That's now that's out there. There's things like the, there's a book of Abraham where Joseph Smith, Sposa got these plates that are these hieroglyphics, and he interpreted it, and then we found a Rosetta Stone we realized he didn't translator should say. And we now know he didn't translate correctly. But one thing that is interesting. And I don't know if you if you know this map at Mormonism actually helped to form the internet, the way it is today, you, you wear that story with Santana, okay. Now I gotta hear this. Oh, you. Okay. So Sandra Tanner when she talks, she has talked in her testimony on that on the when we went on that apologize, crews, she was actually, the Mormon church was so upset with her. And her husband Gerald, that they were doing all this research on Mormonism, and they had to Moore. This is a day before the internet, you had to go into libraries, and they'd go and get these documents and make copies of them, and then they would have to basically run off copies of copies to produce their stuff. And when the internet came out, they had put a link to someone who had released put basically, the manual of, of what goes on in the temple ceremonies, and.