Holmes, President Trump, Lansky discussed on Politics and Public Policy Today


That's how president trump and I communicate a lot of four letter words this case three letter Holmes then said that he heard president trump ask quote is he meetings a Lansky gonna do the investigation to which he replied he's going to do it and then you added the president's a Lansky will do anything that you meeting president trump asked him to do you recall that I probably said something to that effect because I remember the meeting the president our presidents Lansky was very solicitous is not a good word he was just very willing to work with the United States and was being very amicable and so putting it in trump speak by saying he loves your ads will do whatever you want math that he would really work with us on a whole host of issues he was not only willing he was very eager right that's fair because Ukraine depends on the United States as its most significant allies is that correct one of its most absolutely so just so we understand you you were in Kiev the day after president trump spoke to presidents a Lansky on the phone and you now know from reading the call record that in that phone call he requested a favor for presidents a Lansky to do investigations related to the bidens and the two thousand sixteen election I do not know that yes and you met with president alliance he and his aids on the day after that phone call and then you had a conversation with president trump from your cell phone from a restaurant terrace and he asked you whether public presidents a Lansky will do the investigations and you responded that he's going to do them or it and the president's alleged he will do anything you ask them to do is that an accurate recitation of what happened there it could have been words to that effect I don't remember my exact response but you don't have any reason to dispute Mister Holmes recollection correct I won't dispute it but again I don't recall after you hung up with the president Mister Holmes testified about a conversation that you and he had where he says that you told Mister Holmes that the president does not care about Ukraine but the president use the more colorful language including a four letter word that you just reference to just reference do you recall saying that to Mister Holmes again I don't recall my exact words but clearly the president beginning on may twenty third when we met with him in the oval office was not a big fan but he was a big fan of the investigations apparently so and it coursing by democratic counsel Daniel Coleman that you said the president trump only cares about the quote big stuff that benefits himself that's something that you would have said at the time I don't think I would have said that I would have I would have honestly said that he was not a big fan of Ukraine and he wants the investigations that we have been talking about for quite some time to move forward that's what I would have set because that's the fact Mister Holmes Alsos remembers that you told him in giving an example of the big stuff the right in investigation that Rudy Giuliani was pushing do you recall that I don't I recall the reason I'm not by and but do you recall saying at least refer it referring to an investigation that Rudy Giuliani was pushing is that something that you likely what is that I would have yes no even if you don't recall specifically mentioning the bite an investigation to David Holmes we know that it was certainly on president trump's mine because just the day before in his call with president the Lynskey he mentions specifically the bite an investigation and I want to show you that exhibit that eggs are from the call on July twenty fifth where president trump says the other thing there's a lot of talk about Biden's son that bite and stop the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great biting went around bragging that he stop the prosecution so if you can look into it it sounds horrible to me residents alliance you then responds with a reference to the company that he's referring to and two witnesses yesterday said that when presidents a Lansky actually said the company he said a resume so you would agree that regardless of whether you knew about the connection to the bidens at the very least that you now know that that's what president trump wanted at the time through the recent investigation I now know it all of course and at this time you were aware of the president's desire along with Rudy Giuliani to do these investigations including the twenty sixteen election interference investigations I right that's correct and you said president trump directed you to talk to you and the others to talk to her Rudy guiliani the oval office on may twenty third is that right if we wanted to get anything done with Ukraine it was apparent to us we needed to talk to Rudy right you understood that Mister Giuliani spoke for the president correct that's correct and in fact president trump also made that clear to president Alinsky in that same July twenty fifth phone call he said Giuliani is highly risky highly respected man he was the mayor of New York City a great mayor and I would like him to call you I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy and after this president trump and mentions Mr Giuliani twice more in that call now from Mister Giuliani by this point you understood that in order to get that White House meeting that you want to presidents elected to have and the president's alleged he desperately wanted to have that Ukraine would have to initiate these two investigations is that right well they would have to announce that they were going to do it right because they because Giuliani and president trump didn't actually care if they did them right I never heard Mister Goldman anyone say that the investigations had to start or had to be completed the only thing I heard from Mr Giuliani or otherwise was that they had to be announced in some form and that form kept changing announced publicly announced publicly and you of course recognized that there would be political benefits to a public announcement as opposed to a private confirmation right well the way it was expressed to me was that the Ukrainians had a long history of committing to things privately and then never following through so as an trump presumably again communicated through Mr Giuliani wanted the Ukrainians on record publicly that they were going to do these investigations that's the reason that was given to me but you never heard anyone say that they really wanted them to do the investigations I didn't hear either way now your July twenty six call with the president was not the only time that you spoke to the president surrounding that Ukraine trip was it I believe I spoke to him before his call and that's so that that would be on July twenty fifth the day before yeah I think I was flying to Ukraine and I spoke with him if I recall correctly just before I got on the plane so that's two private telephone calls with president trump in the span of two days right correct you have direct access center president trump correct I had occasional access when he chose to take my call sometimes he would sometimes he wouldn't well he certainly took your call twice as it related to Ukraine on these two days is that right yet now the morning of July twenty fifth you texted ambassador Volker and we could bring up the next tax exchange at seven fifty four AM and you said call ASAP ambassador Volker did not respond to you for another hour and a half and he said hi Gordon got your message had a great lunch with your mock and then pass your message to him he will see you tomorrow think everything in place Volcker though an hour before that in about a half an hour before the phone call had texted under your mock a top aide for presidents a landscape and he wrote a good lunch thanks heard from White House assuming president Z. convinces Trumpy will investigate get to the bottom of what happened in twenty sixteen we will nail down date for visit to Washington good luck see you tomorrow investors on them was this message that Kurt Volker pass to Andre your mocked the message you left for Kurt Volker on that voice mail that he reference you know I don't remember Mister Goldman but it very well could have been you don't have any reason to think it wasn't right again I honestly honestly don't remember but seems logical to me and if ambassador Voelker testified that he did get that message from you you have no reason to doubt he testified that he got that message for me then I would concur with that so is it fair to say that this message is what you receive from president trump and a phone call that morning again if he testified to that to refresh my own memory then yes likely I would have received that from president trump but the sequence certainly makes sense right yeah that's you talk to president trump you told her vocal to call you you left a message for Kurt Volcker Volker sent this text message to Andre your mock to prepare presidents a Lansky and then you president trump had a phone call where presents a lens he spoke very similar to what was in this text message right right and you would agree that the message in this is that it is expressed here is that president the lens he needs to convince trump that he will do the investigations in order to nail down the date for a visit to Washington DC is that correct that's correct now I'm gonna move ahead in time to the end of August and early September when you came to believe I believe as you testified that it wasn't just the White House meeting that was contingent on the announcement of these investigations that the president wanted but security assistance as well you testified that in the absence of any credible explanation for the hold on security assistance you came to the conclusion that like the White House visit the aid was conditioned on the investigations that president trump wanted is that what you said in your opening statement it is so let me break this down with you by this time you and many top officials knew that that coveted White House meeting for presidents allies he was conditioned on these investigations right the announcement of the investigations thank you and that includes secretary Pompeii right many many people as well as I could about bio yes and acting chief of staff Mulvaney and you testified that this was a quid pro quo is that right I did and you at this point by the end of August and knew that the eight had been held up for at least six weeks is that correct I believe I found out through ambassador Taylor is that the eight had been held up around July eighteenth is when I when I heard originally and even though you search for reasons you'll never given a credible explanation is that right that's right and no when you spoke to thought that the age should be held to your knowledge is that right I never heard anyone advocate for holding the aid and now by this point at the end of August it went public in the Ukrainians knew about it right I believe there was some press reports you know presuming or who knows but I think at that point it became sort of common knowledge that everything might be tied together and in fact president so lets you brought it up at that September first meeting with vice president pence that you are at right I don't know if he brought it up specifically but asked where the aid was I think was more I think you he sort.

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