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Any pain from milk and honey photography on the line at the moment and and any if you unfamiliar with her is a sydney-based otographer she has business with her husband Matt they shoot weddings and portraits. She's been in business for I think it's over twenty years now I think certainly longer than me because she was an influence and the positive influence and might maybe mental mental but certainly someone to look up to one I started in the I I think any was the new South Wales President back then I'm guessing here but I'm pretty sure she's a multiple master photographer as well and every time she comes on the show as a surprise but the always says yes with a smile and I'll get beaten up afterwards but she sent me this text message this morning Pam Messenger and she says i Andrew Hyper Yeah well I just wanted to broach something that has been bothering macy's I started in the industry and I was wondering how we could encourage people to stop calling the office staff the girls on notice that you often deliberately asinine which is perfect even staff members is better thank you for sitting a positive example it comes up quite a bit and makes me cringe every time so I'd let you know and she goes on to say about a little nice things so any welcome back to the podcast first up thank so you get all that Intro Ron you've been shooting forever twenty years multiple muscle photographer yes yes that was that was very impressive yeah Disney ago I wouldn't dare I mean I I I first of all I guess on that topic is it only Nile photographers the doing this or is it female photographers to well actually I I he people doing it in lots of different industries not even the topography industry and it probably does come from from an ammunition and general generalization is ation I think that people use but yes this typically in the in the tug affi industry it it happens Ends as I think as being around the the twenty years and when Alice came into the industry twenty four it was a very mild dominated industry street was mine as the boys all and it was very unusual to be a female photographer I really need to St back then so I think I think that we've come a long way in twenty years but I fe- elect some of the language around the way that people talk about their they stop often and people that they work with United makes me cringe that that hasn't that language hasn't changed very much you cringe when you hear a female business owner saying as well as a mile or is it Monday the miles that you notice you know I cringed when females as well and I think that said that the the two things that stand out specifically about what we're talking about is when people are describing their business and they say or when knitting introduced I an ally they worked with their wife and and then when they go on to talk about the goals in the office gals at the front desk or the girls in production on that that specifically what we're talking about sorry I noticed that when you introduce me today he deny any let's husband Matsui's so you name it is really nice offended and having end the fact that he's my husband that's great that's reference Often people say the name and I just say that I worked with their wives which implies a certain type of way they were and to me it also believes the job all the wife's old sales you know it's like we all know that those people who are working in the team in business I I really quite probably the ones that are running the crux of the business and you know doing some really important wax so she should be labeling them we saw size titles I think just doesn't get some justice that I deserve so when I introduced you and I talked about Matt that your husband if I had to just said your husband works in the businesses well does that send the wrong message do you feel yeah I think if you had to set all you know anyways the husband or any husbands into business as well like it's it's not really it's not really keeping him facialists Pessene I think that my twelve overruled son often pulls me how many things may describing equal as ours you know racial differences and age differences in all these kind of things it's really important she festival the peasant best and so you you're giving them a bit of credits at the rather than keeping them label that let's conscious out maybe a different idea of who they are is this specific to certain nationalities what does it apply right across the board is that did you hear it from all different people I I think I have I don't really stayed in the context of nationalities citing this language is more about agenda Khanna's debase quality guy I mean I'm just I'm just sort of diving in a little bit some place just trying to get to the actual crux of the of the issue if there is an issue and I mean it sounds like they raise them and I saw me and the reason I ask you about nationalities I notice and I'm probably going to shut down for this but I noticed when people from the US Americans are talking about even their spouse or their their partner I tend to say he or she a lot more whereas I would always use someone's name so I don't know if that's if that's something that's built into the way we're brought up with a language within our countries have you noticed that with Americans as opposed Sousse Riley and yeah they might be different culture wise people talk about it but I think inmates specific example in where I got you know where I j Kriens is when people are talking about in the studio b clay for example so it might be like Oh yes sorry I g I g the shooting and the girls do the production CEOS sorry instead of saying the goals through the faction in the sales we could say we'll felicity is the sales manager in the managers the production assistance or the staff members even you know like just to to be to be pinpointing them down to the girls just gives it really initials who I ah the visual of anything that they could be doing anything that could young old or whatever you just not giving them any has -nology all credibility ready for almost like they're expendable when you liable in that way yeah I think it's respectful to she because your title of dump title or your name you know it's really not that much hotter than the girls and I just started seeing that it would bay said the other way round very often Michael you wouldn't kind of guy and he's husband and the boys in the office like you would you probably wouldn't do that it's it's more common to hear the girls because you know traditional roles in the past you might have a receptionist that more than would be female and that kind of thing being but I think that we need to really move away from that kind of language and that's why you titles have changed over the years as well where were jump titles that given more more credibility ability and more suspect and I think he can pull that through into the way that we think about out businesses and the people that worked for us than I think that's really important here well I agree with you but when when you made that last point on thinking we'll op- got nights as a land skype or he has garden maintenance business and he has three guys working for him and he often refers to them as the boys so I don't know if this is specific to two women are you being too sensitive well I know there's a tendency to say oh you know she's being she's being sensitive which she see these days and all that kind of thing but I I think that you know if it makes you cringe listening to any of you and the people in the you are referring to goals in offices the girls els and talking about them in that way and it's making you cringe then I think as as a problem and that I'm not saying I was sensitive because it's making me cringe that how all I would feel if I was them or have it they perceived in that conversation I think it's I K to be sensitive about that true true okay so how how do we fix that what do we do we is it just a point of making people aware aw this is why I said something to you because I felt L. uncomfortable about that I'll put it on the activities based Patriot thought dominate. I don't WanNa Puke Andrew don't WanNa embarrass anyone I don't WanNa be that that passing going on incident so that's why like sending the message because your insolence you know you're in that position where you can really change people's thoughts on that and and I hate doing that in the interview I he's saying what is the name you know he's on like on just wanted to thank you for genuinely doing that and to and to think about that because if you'll thinking thinking about that and you'll steering people who talking like that away from speaking about off-limits like that then that's how coach changes funniest either because I consciously after nine but I don't think it's the same reas- maybe days off to me I think if I was one of those staff members listening listening back these interview and it's likely that they're going to at some stage I would love to hear mine I mentioned be thanked and talked about for the role that I play in that business and that person success because that's usually usually why they're on the show in the first place so I think I I think I have a habit of putting myself in the shoes of the person that's that I'm interviewing or that I'm recording four or that might be listening to the show I put myself in their shoes and think how I feel I think that that might be the way to approach this and other listeners I think about it if I have stuff and they do talk about this stuff yeah that's a good way to think about it the first person came to my mind when you were talking about stuff off and having female staff on the other side remember Michael Cheremis to have a Nile assistant studio assistant and so do you think he would say the same something or if he did would you notice mattison Michaelides these nine that's interesting right so well he wouldn't only in the girls would he insight I guess then then forced to think about changing the way that you say it yeah I think that it's hard when when the people in the office are female maybe you know it's the same if you've got they now children as well I think the parents inside the go but I just think it's a bit of a derogatory turn the way that it's used in that context contacts and the wife as well you sound very ozzy doesn't it I know you may not look I'm on the same page arm on the same budget again if I if I place myself in the.

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