The cdc got so much criticism last month when they put out these new guidelines saying vaccinated people could do nearly everything without a mask and the pushback was because of people like you. Basically doctors were saying. Listen not enough. People are vaccinated yet. People are going to miss here. This they're gonna think they can go. Maskless no matter. What their vaccination status is. I wonder were you upset about the guidance at the time. Because you're in this interesting position. Where i'm sure you understand as someone who's training people to go and talk to vaccine hesitant people. I'm sure you understand that. Like offering them a maskless future is very enticing and may in fact get some folks to get a vaccine who who might not otherwise but at the same time. It's like the cost of doing that is everything you're talking about that that despair. You're feeling yeah i was. I mean i think i like many people was upset about the guidance and i was upset about the guidance. Not because i think it's necessarily bad guidance. If everyone followed the letter of the law i mean there's increasing evidence that vaccinated people transmit virus at a far far lower rate. But i also think realistically the way human behavior works if vaccinated people toss their mask unvaccinated. People are gonna toss her masks to and i obviously have no way of distinguishing those people. So the cdc's in a tough spot rate they have to go by the evidence and they can't have the nation locked down indefinitely but it's true that step. I think made things a lot. More dangerous firm. you know. Compromise people for people with suppressed immune systems. It's still hard to figure out what's risky. What's not only one. Thing's clear the health of everyone around you matters a lot. Lindsay remembers when she read the news headline last month that the us is unlikely to reach herd immunity. That i think was a moment. A stomach dropping moment because with herd immunity. There was a possibility of near-eradication in the us. You're never going to have total radicals. Someone might come on a plane from another country but the prospect of this just indefinitely circulating is incredibly difficult because then the possibility of getting infected. Even if it's small is always hanging over your head and you know. I live in a city in san francisco with very low infection rates but urban centers are also poorest. People visit san francisco all the time. Now that mask. Mandates are dropping in california. I think the governor's going to push you know planning on pushing for more tourism and so the difficult thing is it's always going to hang over my head that you know someone. I'm sitting next to in a restaurant could be visiting affirma- state with much higher covert incidents and could have covid so that layton possibility is not gonna go away. And that's i think quite difficult. Yeah i wonder if you can even picture yourself sitting indoors at a restaurant anytime soon. I can't picture myself sitting indoors at a restaurant anytime soon. dr ryan. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much for having me. Lindsay ryan works at san francisco general hospital and the san francisco via medical center in california and that is our show. What next is produced by carmel. Shod davis land. Daniel hewitt linda schwartz and mary. Wilson led by alison benedicta deletion montgomery and. I'm mary harris. You can always talk on twitter. Tell me what you thought about the show. I'm at mary's desk mixture. You stay tuned to this tomorrow. Because lizzie o'leary will be here with what next. Tvd that is our friday show. Thanks for thing. I'll catch you back here on monday..