Governor Ducey, Professor, Ellen Woman discussed on The Conservative Circus
We have. Ellen Woman in law professor at A S. U is suing the governor Doug Ducey, on behalf of small businesses. He is back. Back to catch us up. And Professor Worm in the Arizona Department of Health Services issued these guidelines for bars and restaurants. What do you think of him? Thanks so much for having me back and I'll add that you left out acts throwing there's actually died in. Theo had no idea that that was a thing. I don't actually know if any of my plaintiffs actually engage in acts during but stay we lifted these. There was new guidance issued yesterday and this is a partial victory for us in this lawsuit because they make clear That the, uh that the guidelines apply to restaurants that serve alcohol as well. So one of our big claims was well, they're often restaurants with a different license number different license. Siri that act like bars right? There are hotel bars that act like the bars that were shut down right, And it wasn't clear that the's August guidelines from a VHS applied to them. And so what was happening while my plaintiffs on my client's while the bars quote unquote bars weren't doing karaoke, E couldn't do pool couldn't do darts, which is a big draw for people, right? In many places. Ah, lot of restaurants were doing it right. The restaurants from we're offering, you know, thirsty Thursdays at eight o'clock at night, you know, karaoke, and it's like, Well, if they can do it, then we should be able to do two. And the new guidelines, at least on their face suggests that they apply to restaurants to AA and other serious of liquor license. So this is this is progress for us. You know, we still have some discrimination claims right were still making the claim that bars that don't throw food you know, are singled out like if they could follow the same social distance. Sing requirements and you know that everyone else is. Why does it matter if they have a kitchen or not? There's still lots of bars that are closed down. It's not. You know, we have two bars have to sign this form they have to sign was holding at the station form under penalty of perjury. It looks like restaurants Now We'll have to do that, too. But that's you know yet to be seen on then, Of course, we still have the non delegation, doctor. You know how long The governor get exercise his emergency powers. So bottom line. This is progress for our lawsuit. I think the departments The governor's on the departments are recognizing the unfairness ah, that they've sort of created for bars. But there's still much more work to be done in our lawsuits, Professor while it's nice that they changed the guidelines, I mean, does it leave you with the same impression that that it leaves me that these guidelines were arbitrary anyway? And they could change at the drop of a hat? I mean, should they have been in place? It shouldn't have been in place in the first place. Yeah. I mean, that's absolutely true. So first of all, we never should have been closed down in the first place. But if they wanted to impose, you know these guidelines that they issued yesterday in July, you know, are the end of June, right? Maybe that would have been justified. We did see a tremendous increase in and hospitalization rate and so on, and maybe something had to be done. But the point is now it's been months, months and months and months of declining cases, and I know there are some increases today. An infection rates right. But the key metric is hospitalization and hospitalization for covert like illnesses has been in minimal, right. 23% of all hospitalizations, that's it. Four months since August 4, So the question is, What's the emergency? What's the emergency? So, as we say in our briefing to the court, the governor has effectively declared an emergency because we're in a bad hurricane season or in about fire season. You know, maybe you can close down restaurants and bars and shut down the state in March, you know, and we don't know what the pandemics going to bring. That's like That's like declaring emergency because there's an impending hurricane. Fine, but hurricane came it went. Maybe you Khun declared emergency again in June when hospitalization rates you know, kind of went up a lot, but now it's gone. The hurricane came and went, and you can't just have a perpetual emergency because it's about fire season or about hurricane season. Governor Ducey has said. Time and again this is the new normal. This is the new normal. He said that over and over again Well, it's for the Legislature to decide what restrictions should exist on people individuals, So they wear masks or not, you know, should schools be open should bars because should karaoke you'd be restricted should capacity a restaurant be restricted. If we're living under the new, normal well, it's for the Legislature to legislate under normal conditions. And so that part of our claims still very much alive, You know, as well as their stolen from other discrimination going on. But you know, that's what this boils down to. This would have been great a few months ago. It's an improvement now, because, as you said the previous guidelines were clearly arbitrary, singling out, you know, a specific series of license and so on. So it's an improvement, but they're still much much work to be done. Professor Ellen Woman is AH, he's a professor at a S U he's suing Governor Ducey on behalf of small businesses. Yeah, I have to ask you just one more question here. I've heard that there is some expectation that the judge might rule this week. Do you share that expectation? And can you guess what the ruling might be? Also, I can't really get on either of those things. I'm hoping that we get a ruling this week. Right now. There's nothing further to be done in this case until we get a ruling from the judge on our preliminary injunction. You know, we had that hearing two weeks ago, and then we had some oral arguments on what's called the motions to dismiss where the governor is trying to throw out the case, right? And so I suspect the judge will deny the motion to dismiss is right. That doesn't mean we'll win on the merits of the end of the day, but it means at least she thinks our lawsuit can proceed right? So, so I'm expecting shall rule in our favor there. But But But it's hard to know. I don't really know if you'll rule in our favor on the preliminary injunction, and at the end of the day, there's no time women I want a judge can rule and, you know, judges are busy and so on. But Because the hearing was two weeks ago. I'm expecting a ruling this week, maybe early next week, so at least we could move on to the next stage is of this case, Professor Worm unwanted. Thank you very much for bringing us up to speed and I just have to tell you The more we learn about this, the more perplexing it is. We have not heard from the governor. He has done his his usual one week presses again, I guess because there's nothing to say. And there's questions out there that he does not want to answer. So here we are playing this game. We had the governor earlier this week or with President Trump saying, you know, Hey, we don't vote for Biden because he's going to shut you down and here he is still having sections of the state. Shut down the hypocrisy. Is crushing.