Listen: Carson Wentz, Nick Foles, Philadelphia discussed on First Things First
"And one with that knee or both riddled with injuries. You don't even know what you're going to get back. You coach me. Jeez he's talking about the Philadelphia Eagles when Philly gave Carson Wentz that four year one hundred twenty eight million dollar extension back. In June there was no question whence was the quarterback of their future. Sure but fast forward to the end of November with the Eagles now sitting at five and six on the verge of missing the playoffs and that Carson conversation has changed. Just ask former Eagle Michael Vick he will fail and in Philadelphia. I think you know just the bar has been set so hi by Nick foles regardless of when he came in you know he did what he did. They WanNa Sorbo now. You know it's silliness that has been set and a along with Carson Wentz his carrots which sometimes has been questioned by Saint Bai's teammates and the public. You know. It just makes it difficult. Go for him so I think he's just fighting an up hill battle continuously weekend and we got the win. The bigger teammate a lot. What do you think nick? It's Michael Vick right you think. Carson wentz fails and Philadelphia. I guess we got to define failure. I if the if failure is anything short of the Super Bowl Nick foles did then. Yeah I would say the smart money is on that Carson wentz probably doesn't WanNA super bowl either. The vast majority of quarterbacks don't win a super bowl even really good ones and I and I still think Carson Wentz can turn his career back in the direction was headed after year two. I don't know if he'll ever be deleting. MVP candidate again. And but I do think he has the tools I do think you watch him is not only is this capability but his big throw ability to measurable all those things. I say this should be one of the top eight nine quarterbacks in football year in year out not that dissimilar even though they're very different stylistically to Donovan mcnabb. who was never really really? I don't think there was a year with Donovan. Was the best quarterback in the NFL but is better years. He was in the top five he was in the discussion. They were Purnell playoff team. Now they never got over the hump. They got Super Bowl. I wouldn't consider mcnabb failure in Philadelphia and Nick foles just hadn't beaten the Patriots then no one would be considering it super bowl or bus for Carson Wentz. So I it depends on how you evaluate it. We just talked to Jared Goff. I don't think Jared Goff is going to be a high level quarterback in this league I do think Carson wins can be but I know this speaks to something coachman preaching as long as I've known him. which is we anoint? These guys too early once was anointed after year to having played elite zero playoff games and now all of a sudden the fall to earth has been harsh and stark. Are we considering nick. Foles career a a success is that is that it seems well okay what he really came in after Carson went eleven and to and and what he did was incredible what is his whole career rear successful or not successful. I I don't know how you judge his body of work I think Carson Wentz has a chance to to make Philadelphia competitive every single year and look if he fails then Doug Peterson fails and they're tied together and it'll eventually turn into to regime change but look at this year. PHILLIES had a lot of problems on a lot of different levels. Have had problems on the defensive line. They've had problems in terms of identifying their defensive Yup philosophy because she's on the defensive line this past game missing Brandon Brooks are missing Lane Johnson. You're missing the receiving corps. He got hit and and lost some fumbles but he's got hit at a very high rate my issue with Carson Wentz is his ability. Stay healthy because I do think he puts himself in some situations nations that he shouldn't but if he can stay healthy he's got a chance to be a competitive or put that team in a competitive situation every single year. I don't no how he'll do in the playoffs. And that's why I've always had concern of of of where he is an elite quarterback. But he's done a lot of really good things that I think. We're discounting because of the problems. The Eagles have had collectively as opposed. Adjust him. You brought up a great point health. Okay he's been injured virtually every year since he was a freshman in cod from his ear. Yes some type of injury so that that's an issue. Even beyond just the way he plays his style but I think it doesn't matter what I say because I agree with a unique in that I think he can become a very good quarterback like he was before he got hurt. Like eleven to. I think he can do that. Individually and I think he can make Philadelphia competitive but it Philadelphia of all places places. Success is a super bowl especially when we saw a backup quarterback win with essentially the same team so Philadelphia Adelphia. Where we we know the cliche now booth Santa Claus we understand? They want a Subaru. Nick foles no. I don't think his career as obviously hasn't been been great individually but if Philadelphia because he won that Super Bowl they love him there forever and I think Carson Wentz particularly because it's with the same aim team unless he wins a super bowl he's going to be viewed as a failure there in Philadelphia and very few players. I can't think of one who has aso's expectations on. There may be as you say air rogers but Aaron Rodgers. WHOA great individually already won a super bowl that his legacy is set for our KTAR COM winces is not so I I tend to agree with me? I guess my question would be this. If Carson Wentz has Philip rivers career. Are we calling dude. I don't think Philip rivers is a failure. He's never beaten the Patriots never once they've never been to a super bowl. Never once I think Philip rivers sat any Helluva career. I think he has lived up to his top five draft pick status. I think all those things are definitely true. He's one of the greatest players in the history of his franchise. I you coach triggers. I I see the look on your face. I don't know if you're disagreeing or green with me I. I don't think and this is not across sports a little bit this one of the reasons that I think the initial the NBA is having right now. Oh is at some point. The narrative flipped in sports from championships being the most important thing to championships. Being the only thing that matters Adar's at all don't care about the rest of it and I don't like that like Carson Wentz has Philip rivers career and Phil is going to be interesting hall of fame candidate. I think he probably really gets in. I don't think you can call anyone. That is even a fringe hall of Famer a failure. Even if they don't have ultimate success obviously we all agree if they win the Super Bowl at some point. It's not a failure. Oh you're but even if they don't I wouldn't consider Carson Wentz his career a failure and I don't see this as being the same team that Philly had when they won the superbowl there has been quite a bit of turnover defensively. And and there's been some turnover offense lease well but part of his success is also going to be his development. The coaches need to continue to develop him and and he'll be part of that process. But it's it's a group effort and winning a championship isn't just a function of how the quarterback plays. It goes a long way but as we talked about but with Tom Brady. He has complementary aspects to it that really help him that put him in a position to maximize his abilities as well. But you know how the narrative goes. It's on the quarterback. Yeah that's what the narrative is and it's all about context. Nick you're right. I mean if Nick foles had not one that super bowl. It's a totally different. It's about context and Philip rivers did not have to follow in the situation that breeze and we just WANNA title. That's true but like I don't consider Matt Ryan or Cam Newton failures in Atlanta or Carolina. Like you Matt Stafford. You could say has been disappointing overall in Detroit Troy even though he's got really good numbers number overall pick of the draft. Never even been to the second to the conference championship game. Like there's winning has to be a part of it but it can't be especially when Dan Brady's went in one out of three super bowls. There's not a lot of super bowls to go around for everyone. Thank you for listening to the first things first. PODCAST remember leave us a review and tell. Tell us what you think. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts and catch us on F s one Monday through Friday. Six Thirty A._M.. Easter for Chris Carter Nick Right on Jenna Wolfe so on everybody.."