Justin Elizabeth, Apple, Steve Jobs discussed on The Dropout

The Dropout


That. Elizabeth kept successfully recruiting from Apple's ranks poaching several of honest, former colleagues, so where are we right now, we're at Kupa cafe in Palo Alto. This is where you would meet Elizabeth this is where we met. Elizabeth this is where. But for people outside of Silicon Valley, this is a place where tech people would come in chat about big news. They still have. I think there's a reputation with this place that like things happen here deals your conversations happen. So it fits like a never, right? It's like fits into that story somewhere over there. There's a forty million dollar check. On his old apple colleagues, Justin Maxwell and Adam Fulmer soon came on board along with Mike Bauer Lee whose wife had worked at apple with both of them. So would you call yourselves buddies work, buddies? Oh, yeah. For sure Mike injustice, worked on honest team designing the Edison and other products software. So Justin starting with you. What made you take the offer on and others involved in my recruiting having hyped it up so much. I had just gone in there with this expectation that I was meeting brilliance. And so that thinking that I was meeting the next Steve Jobs next is after Burg something like that. That just created this impression of I was in awe of this person's drive. So for me, this was something that could make a positive dent on humanity. Adam was an engineer generally. I was like, yeah. This is somebody I want to come work for we wanted to see her become that Bill later like everybody wants to work for the next few jobs. It wasn't long before they started to see they were designing something in the apple style for technology that really didn't exist. Like there was an overall feeling of like, we have absolutely no need for apple designers here that didn't make sense at first. But then as we started to learn from people saying the tech doesn't work or the scientists matching up then we understood right? That's why you don't want us here. It's not because you don't like us as people is that like we actually can't provide value to this company right now, if the under the foundation isn't working on top of that they say Elizabeth arranged things. So that everyone was purposely silo, and they were sworn to secrecy to protect what Elizabeth felt were trade secrets, but it was like the left hand. Didn't know what the right. Hand was doing. I would be on Mike are managing. It was like actively kind of trying to foster this competition or I don't know how a complete distrust for the organization that she'd built under her. But despite this chaos, she even managed to poach offi Tavini in from apple. He was Steve Jobs right hand at the company. He led the software team that developed MAC OS ten obviously, even in the Steve Jobs movie like this. I'll be today's our chief softwares, and he wrote a demo program is likely built a great car. We haven't built the engine. We put a golf cart battery in there to make a gopher a little bit, AVI. Joined the board in two thousand six but quickly got frustrated with what he was seeing. I think what you didn't expect was I would actually ask a lot of questions and that if things weren't going as they should be going that I would ask tough questions. How would she respond when you would ask tough? Questions. You know, she was really good at I would say deflecting them. So it was generally probably I would say more of a non answer or a evasive answer. Which is we don't have the contract right now. Maybe I can get that for you later things like that. He wasn't the only one confused by the company. It seemed like employees were being hired and fired really quickly. Here's Justin Elizabeth did a great job of recruiting amazing people. I would watch those people that I trusted disappear. Our office was right next to the general counsel and the head of business development. Both of them were people had tremendous admiration for they were extremely sharp and knew the industry, very well. And they just vanished. And then I think like two weeks after I started the CFO was just like promptly fired or disappeared. Right. And. That was disconcerting on them theranos is chief design architect notice the same thing should do not want to hear other people's opinions. She wanted positive results. I think that you know, anyone who basically told Elizabeth no now disagreed with her perspective and point of view, you were immediately terminated it was just a very unusual environment. Yeah. There were posts to glass doors website from employees wear. They acquitted it to a South American dictatorship or a drug cartel. How would you describe the culture of their in house? Justin. I watching people that I really trusted vanish. And then actually noticed thing that this person is willing to lie to me about extremely trivial unimportant things. And how do you know? She lied. Oh, because we were discussing some product design over Email, and she was expecting me to stay in the office late to finish it up. And she's said something the fact of you know, like I can't I can't help without right now. But I will get back to you when I'm in the office tomorrow, and she was actually just in an office right down the hall from me, and you could see her sending you. So I walked over to her and had a bit of an argument with her and then walked back to my office. And she stormed after me came in and shut the door behind me and said don't ever walk off on me again. But did she acknowledge that she had lied to you? Of course, not and things went beyond. What implies say it was casual lying just as Elizabeth had convinced the apple recruits to come aboard to design a product for technology that didn't yet exist. She was trying to sell a product to big pharma that wasn't ready. One incident was particularly troubling to Ana Elizabeth had convinced a major drug company to let their nose test. It's technology on terminal cancer patients in a study in Tennessee, really vulnerable people

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