Howard Markel, Henning Jacobson, Supreme Court discussed on On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts


And this the vaccine itself the end product of medicines long match with measles role as a historian of medicine to ask you at the top. Ten breeders tits of medicine are at least nine of the would be all these vaccines medical historian. Howard markel says. There's a long history of vaccine resistance in the united states and turning the tide has been made harder. Due to another particularly american trait the local control of public health in eighteen ninety two there was another cholera pandemic. That was an towards new york and president. Harrison closed the court but he could only add to the days of quarantine that the state would porn gene those ships because that was the new york state control or tuesday so that led to what was called the national corn connective of 1893 which the president in a contagious prices could not subtract from. What the state or the logo city did but it could add to that later on there was the nineteen forty four public health. Act that gave the president broad powers in case of a contagious crisis. Even a supreme court president jacob zuma versus state of It's nine hundred five. Henning jacobson was a pastor in kingsbridge. he did not wanna take a mandatory smallpox vaccine. They were generally made those vaccines by city or state health departments. They were pretty safe. But this is nineteen five nights. State supreme court sibley was seventy two voted. No you don't have the right to opt out of something like this. Because we're talking about a community acquired infections. And so there's even the united states supreme court precedent for this plenty of local and state precedents. And of course there were vaccine mandates. Most of the vaccine's up until relatively recently to children as a pediatrician there was Battery of vaccines. I gave to newborns to fifteen month old too know and so on and they had a little If you will pass for the cardboard piece of paper that the pediatrician would sign his or her their name and the date and the vaccine and that child or really their mom. Sometimes they're dead had to take that little cardboard document when they started kindergarten matter the city of baltimore the mid eighties city detroit. You had to have that. But as the eighties preceded. There are more and more exemptions and various state governments for bic scenes to opt out not just religion but philosophical reasons that kind of exemption lead to for example. The outbreak of measles in disneyland. Two thousand fourteen because less than half the kids in orange county california or vaccine against measles. So i find this antipathy to Wonderfully safe and effective preventive with people. Saying it's my liberty it's my rights. People say just get sick with up. I'll come out the other end but we're living in twenty twenty one not nineteen twenty one. We have all these tools but digitals and preventive. Why would you want to get sick with this. And because it's russian roulette kind of disease. I can't tell if your covert infection you foggy for the next several months or mike ovid is gonna land meal. Icu the most predictable thing about. Covert nineteen is its unpredictability so to me. it's all about. I mean this is my training up pediatrician. it's all about prevention. I can't understand because of my training in work why we would not take care of this as if it were a threat which is what it is a threat to the health of our nation. It's nothing less. It's howard markel director of the center for the history of medicine at the university of michigan. His new book coming out next week is called the secret of life. Rosalind franklin james watson francis crick and the discovery of dna's double helix. So the big question for today is what is the place where smart public health decisions the exercise of federal power and protecting civil liberties all meet well helping us to navigate that complexity is anita faira. Honey she's a professor of law and philosophy at duke university also co editor in chief and co founder the journal of law and the biosciences and she joins us from durham north carolina. Professor farah honey. Welcome back to one point. Thank you pleasure to be here. Will you heard howard there. Talk about what he sees as a long legal history justifying president biden's new vaccine mandate for american employees Do you do you agree with him that there is ample proof that this is illegal exercise of federal power. Well that's the important part our federal there right. So there's certainly ample precedents for the exercise of state and localities implementing vacc- mandates. In fact you know we have. We have plenty of them at the state and local levels for childhood. Vaccinations and for other purposes. But there is no precedent on point. That i'm aware of a federal mandate nor any precedent for The legal right of the federal government to reach into every state and to require citizens of those states to become vaccinated. I wish there were. I think it would be great in some ways I mean not really because it creates a lot of complications. Especially if there's some policy. I don't like being handed down at the federal level in this instance. I wish it were true that we could somehow force everybody to get vaccinated but that's not going to get us out of the pandemic and that's not the right answer here So so why is it not true. Tell me a little bit more about that. Because i was thinking about specifically in the realm of a health care decisions that americans make you know the this is not a parallel example but I was thinking about the affordable care. Act right. I mean that is a federal law but it's exercise through commerce right because it has to do with health insurance which the federal government can regulate commerce here and this is a mandate. That's not going through congress. It's going through osha right right so you know it it it. It's absolutely true that the federal government has power and it has power That it can exercise in the states through..

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