Listen: Simone Schmidl, Murder, Ohio discussed on True Crime Garage

"All right. because on november first nineteen ninety three. We're now in a location. That's about five kilometers away from where the bodies as of deborah and james were found. The body of simone schmidl was found in this location. Simone was twenty one years old from town near munich. She was visiting australia and traveling around now. On january twentieth nineteen ninety one she was traveling solo and she told some friends she planned to catch a train to liverpool and then hitchhike her way down the hume highway after this. She is never seen alive again now. Some items were found four months after her disappearance simone had multiple stab wounds and was stabbed twice through her spine three days later on november fourth nineteen ninety three the bodies of gabor neugebauer and anja hab. She'd were found found. Just about one kilometer east of where simone's body was located. Both were missing since christmas of nineteen ninety one. This is the missing missing german couple that we discussed earlier. Kabore was double gad one stuffed in his mouth and one tied around his head he had been strangled and looking through all this i could not figure out if it was thought to be manual or ligature strangulation but the reports are that the high wade bone was broken he it was also shot in the head six times. Ana was found under a pile of logs branches and debris. She was face down naked from the waist down. She had been decapitated from what was determined to be a single blow from a heavy bladed object such as a sword or a machete eddie we are now at seven bodies found total and three of the cases we have to persons travelling together only one case out of the four. Do we have someone traveling solo. What is common through how we have witnesses or people who saw or spoke to the victims shortly before before they went missing stating that the victims were believed to be hitchhiking their way around at some of the sites where the bodies were found not too far far from where the bodies themselves were located. We have evidence that the killer spent some time hanging out in the area. This could be days leading up to the killings. Meaning in separate visits entirely or immediately after the killings what they found was evidence of a campfire near the attacks plus it one of the body dump locations they found like a makeshift firing range where the shooter shot up trees bottles and cans hands now at this makeshift shooting gallery they found tons of shell casings spent bullets and so on they found two different calibers at one site now they were able to determine from the debris left behind by the shooter that all of this stuff had been there about the same amount of of time this meaning that the two guns were fired the same day or night not not a situation where one target you know once target shooting and then returns earns at a later date with the different gun for more target practice right it looked to the detectives as though the offender had a silencer on the twenty two which also makes you believe that one we have multiple cases where there's two victims and there's different wounds so law enforcement might think okay well. Maybe we have more than one killer and now we have a situation where we have somebody shooting off guns but there's two calibers that would also lead to the idea that maybe there's more than one individual yeah and sorry i think i jumped ahead head here. In my notes captain. They were able to determine that one of the calibers that was used at this shooting gallery. Let's say was a twenty two and they could sit dell bhai markings on the bullets that the a silencer was being used with the twenty two boeing also with a gun on being involved especially in the three cases of the couples that would also lead one to believe that maybe there was only one attacker because you could control to individuals with a gun yeah. Let's we'll get into that in just one second here but before we do so i wanna point out that you you know we have law enforcement very early on with the statement of where expecting to find more bodies and then when they do in fact find two more bodies their next statement is we think we're looking for a serial offender or serial killers here. <hes> what is confirmed at some point after seven bodies are found. We learned that the there are matching twenty two caliber bullets shell casings and cartridge boxes oxes that were found at multiple crime scenes so not only were they suspicious of this and thinking that they were looking for a serial oh killer or killers now they have confirmation of evidence left behind these attacks and murders are in fact connected while at least two of the cases as we have us the spinal cord being severed that is not a very typical injury that you see and murders yes and you know we've talked about this before with the lindsay boozy case. It's for me personally. It's awfully difficult to determine if that it is in fact deliberate or if in a frenzied attack that maybe it's just it's just happenstance that it occurred. I i feel like in lindsay's case. It could have just occurred like i i lean more that way but with some of these it appears to be much more deliberate yeah i ah it's it's strange to me because the mount of wounds you know or amount of times that somebody's shot or stabbed to me. There's rage element here but then there's a calculation element in here as well welcome to the segment of armchair styling in an profiling with the captain nick <hes> but i also think there's an element of calculation here because we see in again again multiple cases where the spinal cord is severed but you also have these this time and this could be happenstance as well but punctured lungs. It's almost i like this. Person is creating a scenario where they they want the person to suffer through this these are gonna suffer wounds if that makes any sense well and the need to like incapacitate them and make it so that they are unable to flee or or to fight back during the course of whatever left what is what is left of the attack right and then you also wonder you sever one person's spinal cord. They can't move their paralyzed. Now you can do whatever you want to the other victim and almost i make the person like like i said suffering pain but also suffer through the tack of the other individual okay so let's go through the psychological profile l. of the killer or killers. Now there were several profiles actually worked up for these cases worked up by psychiatrists and criminal apologised what i did hear captain to save us some time is i tried to combo them for one master profile so i as you were pointing out. It was tricky right. They they are uncertain as they should be looking for. One or two killers killers police were having trouble with this in mainly for reasons that you already pointed out but just to simplify they were having trouble with how just one person could lower in most cases to victims into the forest control them and murder both of them plus. We have three in cases where we have to victims in those cases and these incidents one victim is more mutilated than the other so could in fact be to keller's killers. This was strongly argued in at least two of the profiles that were put forward and in both of these they cited that brothers would be the more likely to be the the team of offenders here often when we have to offenders there is a more dominant personality of one offender under and then a more follower type for the other right the profiles that pushed the two offender theory cited this as the the likely cause for the differing levels of mutilation between the victims. The other difficult thing here is the crime scenes where it appears that two victims are controlled attacked killed and partially buried or concealed in separate locations. Yeah be close together but still separate so so what they're getting at here. Captain is to offenders. This is certainly possible rise. The idea of okay we now attacked are victims all right move your victim to a spot where they couldn't be found and so if they're separated on some level than you would then the bodies these would be separated more wants you to conceal them. <hes> where if you have one killer he attacks his victims he drags one of the victims into a <hes> secluded spot where he thinks this makes the most sense and then you drag the next victim to the same spot yeah and i think that the reason why they're pointing out this this <music> scenario here is that you likely have to offenders because they seem to be choosing to victims and then the thought on top of that is why are we finding one victim here and then one here when we know that they were once together. Is that possibly that the offender wanted privacy from the other other offender <hes> with the victim right so a lot of a lot of <hes> analysis going on here with these crime scenes and some pretty detailed analysis to i don't i don't know if i buy this idea that based off what evidence we have that you can say while these we think they're brothers of the if there's two killers so you know the idea that you're one stating pretty early on we have a serial killer and we're going to find more bodies and then you go okay not only do we have a serial killer but we have a a duo zero killer team and their brothers yeah we we actually have two profiles that were put forward the that shared that thought <hes> <hes> <hes> not outwardly saying that they have to be brothers but that was something that they were leaning towards in their profile. I just wish i knew if there was something more if they had some more evidence <hes> whether that was some kind of i don't know fits or or something that would lead them to believe that there'd be there'd be related. I don't think that it was evidence that was found as far as like fingerprints are or or anything of that nature. What they're pointing out here is in cases that they have seen in the past. Look it is it is very rare and i know that everybody's gonna think of three or four or five cases immediately as soon as i say this but it is rare for there to be a serial killer team it's often they work alone right. This is batman and robin yeah and then even more rare than that would for to be relate relation that are working together. I can't name one and so they they don't have their work some cousins in florida <hes> of course there there were actually brothers in ohio back in the seventies that i think quirk worthy <hes> they were looking for the twenty two caliber killer i believe was the the moniker that was applied to those cases and it turned out to be too offenders and they were brothers. <hes> you wonder though so just happen yeah but you said there was a twenty two caliber in this case as well yeah. You wonder if it's i you know they're doing some research and going okay well in ohio. They're looking for killers and it happened to be brothers. You know which i mean first of all you. I just don't trust brothers from ohio. That's number one world so the the reason why i think they're coming up with this and it's difficult because it is as you pointed out such a small all sample size to to come up with this evidence that they're looking for similarities between solved cases and what they think that they're looking at and and i think where they go to the point of saying that the offenders might be brothers or related i. I think i might have taken it a step too far right. Maybe one of the profiles vials just said some relation but they're saying that they've seen in the past that the victims are separated for the purpose of privacy and they usually you see this when there is a relation between the two offenders where if the two offenders are more just friends or in on this this thing together hobby together that they actually feed off of each other more so than what brothers or related offenders would so to offenders. This is certainly a possibility but let's go through some other stuff that we know right. We have evidence regarding the paul onions situation that attack he was picked up by one man not to and win the man using using the name bill tried to kill him. He shot at him so now when creating this profile to be completely fair to do all that were putting these profiles forward at this time the experts there were not armed with the information that this paul onions attack may in fact be he connected right so looking at this information that we know captain we now can add crimes where we know that a gun was used and we know that from from what we found with our dead victims but we also know that with paul onions situation adding the use of the gun to the equation means a signal killer may possibly really been able to control more than one victim at a time so starting there. Are we looking for one or two. Let's let's go to that. Maybe we're looking for just this one offender because the other profiles set out for one offender so this one offender would be somebody who owns and his very comfortable around guns this man would be average living an ordinary life given the physical nature of his crimes he would be fit and possibly athletic expect expect him to be fairly intelligent. He is a loner but he is outwardly sociable a talker. He lives on the outskirts of a city or in a semi rural area right. He is employed in a semi skilled job probably works outside. He has a history of aggression win against authority. He likely has a record of some kind police record they mean and may view himself as some type of outlaw they also struggle all to come up with the offenders possible age in these profiles this as we appointed out several times and many other cases this is one of the hardest details sales to estimate but again we have a possible eyewitness so if we go back to the story of paul onions the survivor brain if he was in in fact attacked by the same man we have gener- idea based off of his description of demands age and so for the single offender profiles they they put the man's age as being in his thirties or forties. He's a man they say that fits into his surroundings. He could be a co worker a neighbor or a friend meaning kind of like the delphi situation. He's hiding in plain sight. He's probably married or in a stable relationship. I like how they throw this little thing in here to even though she may not know it to him. The relationship may be unsatisfactory. See if i was a profiler at throwing some weird stuff just like i don't know why he had to point out that he had a criminal record because i don't think anybody was thinking he has a world world record for long jump or anything but you mean me clarify and criminal record but i think if i was profiling i'd throw in like one or two things that he knew you weren't true but also didn't matter that people would just read over and be like he he also likes peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. You know like some random fact. Some of this next stuff to me seems a little vague and i and i'm maybe i'll just get into it as we go through it to not to not to confuse anybody here but so they say he gets a sexual and likely and emotional satisfaction from controlling and killing his victims but ultimately he kills for pleasure for the thrill simply because he enjoys it now although he may not have had intercourse with the victims he got his kicks by expressing his bizarre deviations through sadistic aggression mutilation and finally their execution so yeah and there's something that you know he you could go back. We've see this from time to time where they're not actually sexually assaulting the victims but growing home and <hes> thinking about it in plain ryan you know long games of flicky flicky yeah and i i mean i totally get what they're saying here. There is some suspicion that you know. I and i know that they're saying in these these profiles that the crimes are sexual nature whether or not he's raping or sexually assaulting the victims. There does seem to be some evidence at crime scenes that there was at least some fondling or or something going on during the course of these attacks and again again. It's one of those things that you also then questioned. I think if you're taking into victims especially when you have a female and male combo that it'd be less likely that it'd be for sexual reasons <hes> because if it was purely yell alf sexual reasons then why wouldn't you just take a victim that was out that the single type victim that you're looking for. You know if you're does that make sense assault one hundred percent <hes>. I think what what we might be looking at here. Though captain is and i hate to use some of these terms but but it only makes makes sense. I think it's the you know where he is. Hunting plays into a factor of that right so <hes> whether or not it'd be too offenders or one. We have a situation where as you said we got couples <hes> at least in two of the cases we have a couple and yes it would be a lot easier for a single offender and to offenders to commit these crimes against one person. The problem is i think regarding this specific situation we noted at the start of this episode that hitchhiking making was considered to be somewhat safe but we pointed out that that is considered to be safe when you're traveling as as a group or with another person rhyming you see this a lot. There's a lot of americans go over to europe right after high schooler or sometime during college to go backpacking through europe and and you also see this in australia as well so having that as a part of of your culture and also a part of your economy this also leads towards while this these are also easier prey because one they're. You're looking for rides <hes> they're. They're willing to get into the vehicle while they're yeah 'cause back. That's how he's picking them up while on if you ever stayed at like a youth hostel or any hostile. Is you know you might be in a room with four other strangers. You're gonna fall asleep in a room with four other strangers or however. Many strangers are in that room. <hes> you know unless you want to pay for you know so you're separated but most people don't and so you're already in a situation where you're going. Let's let's see the world and let's explore this country in and we have to be trusting of all these strangers that we meet along our journey <hes> so it's really it's really a perfect scenario to <hes> to just kind of sit there and pick and choose who you wanna pick-up well in but what i mean by this is not more so that he's doing it out of necessity rather than as a preference brent's okay so long right right because well first of all somebody's going to be. It's more likely if somebody's traveling alone it'd be male than female now and so and the chances of anybody really doing a venture like that on their own is is probably a way less of a percentages donate with a group of people yeah. There were some cases in this area that we're talking about that took place in the seventies <hes> some of them being unsolved murders and unsolved missing persons cases where the the victim was believed to have been hitchhiking at the time by themselves and and so it was kind of known and commonplace throughout this area that that you don't do this type of activity by yourself that you should be with with another person or or a group and therefore i mean he might he might have just been doing this because that's all he could get into his car and we have ed kemper who tolls tell us that it you know it was much easier for him to get two girls in the car at one time rather than than one they're. They're just more trusting when they have somebody else to go. Oh along with them. Well and i was thinking about this letter day because we've talked about control lean. You know we've talked about this a lot. You know we've done three hundred plus episodes but there's a lot of times where we go okay. How did they get the victim into the car or how did they control to victims and i actually think controlling victims wouldn't be as hard as as initially thought and that's because let's say you have a gun or a knife or whatever you have and you're controlling you only have to control one of the individuals that other individual title chances are is not going to take off and run for it. Because what are you doing if you do that right. It's inevitable that the person that you're leaving behind is a goner right and in they've actually you know some people will cite cases where a serial killer."

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Simone Schmidl, Murder, Ohio discussed on True Crime Garage

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