Dory, Harvard Business Review, Marketing And Sales discussed on What's Next! with Tiffani Bova
And standing out which was named number one leadership book in Two Thousand Fifteen by INC magazine. A former presidential campaign spokeswoman she teaches at Duke and writes frequently for the Harvard Business Review. I've been following Dory for years and I couldn't be more thrilled to welcome her today. So welcome dory to what's next. Hey tiffany great to be speaking with you. Well it's just fun to have you on because I've you know. Read your books and followed you for some time and I and I'm looking forward to this conversation but before we dig in then I always start with something I call bullish. Bearish which my listeners have come to really love. It's just three quick questions bullish. You're really four it Bayrischer against it and it's just a way to kind of get the guests ready for the conversation. You're ready for this. Yes are right not painful. And although you were a presidential campaign spokeswoman I didn't pick a political one I wanted to but I did not but maybe we'll get into that ask. I was totally totally wanted to all right. So bullish bearish. I won A. I will be able to replicate a grammy winning jazz album album bullish. Oh not what I expected you to say. I think I will be able to do pretty much everything. Wow so there's a little back story that you've actually been involved with multiple grammy winning jazz album. Hence why pick that. But I'd be like what why I don't understand but that's why so. I may want to ask you more about that. All right the next one is a little fun. Sales is a harder job. The Marketing Mu. I think yes. I'll say bullish on bullish on that. Oh also not what I expected acted Dory you are two for two on me. I thought Recipro- As a marketer that Oh man I'm way off today clearly are i. Can I can explicatives more of these. He's of these things right now. If you'd like or or we can or we can do it later. Tiffany up to you told that because that's a good one 'cause not what I expected. All right in the next one is people can be brands and create brands just like companies sure bullish. Three four three three three four three. I didn't get bearish out of you all right. So I'm GONNA DIG in. I guess and start with a sales marketing one because I often often have this career debate. It's been twenty five years where I can call myself a recovering seller bleed sales blood and I had to learn how to be a marketer and and customer service etc and whenever you know you get sales marketing in the room depending on what industry and what size company etc.. It's always this love. Love hate relationship kind of you know water and oil. But I'm I'm really curious as someone who watches an advises this is for marketing. And brand that you would agree. That sales is harder and I know that harder is in air quotes because I mean all kinds of things but talk me through why you answered that bullish Polish. Yeah so I advise a lot of people in my executive coaching and you know in the in the books that I write like entrepreneurial you who are starting their own businesses and consulting or or coaching or things like that and it's it's interesting because of course there's yes This sort of microcosm where you have to begin from the ground up and create a going concern and certainly at the macro level this is what companies have to do as well no we built. We know that both marketing and sales are critically important. You have to have both of them but sales is something As I they have kind of created a a formula around how to how to advise the people that I coach around it what I tell them this in the early days of your business you have to over over index on sales because it is about the hand to hand combat of getting a revenue stream and having enough cash flow to keep your business going and it's only then once the wheels are turning and you have validated that you have something in the marketplace that you can begin to lift your head up and have more of a long term orientation which fundamentally is what marketing is about marketing is about. How do you make the sale a year from now? Not How do you make the sale tomorrow and you know sales is much more Focused on the here and now and so at different stages in your business you have to have both but what I I have. Would I have often seen Holding many people back especially people who are highly talented educated successful professionals who want to to start their own businesses and this is often a demographic that I that I work with people who are Either high level executives looking to become consultants wouldn't or People who may already doing it but just want to up level at the challenge is oftentimes that sales involves uh a level of putting yourself out there and risking director rejection in a way that many smart people just cannot countenance and I think it is emotionally harder for people. Marketing is a hard discipline and it involves A lot of strategy involves really really being good at at what you do but if you are rejected quote unquote it's usually a lot less direct. It's it's if somebody didn't take your article or maybe nobody retweeted your article or something like that. As compared to a person face to face saying no and I think that the emotional fortitude fortitude that is required for sales is something that is that is probably much harder than what is necessary marketing. Well I I liked what you said about Marketing being more of a long term view. Because I feel like that's actually shifted a little bit right. I think it's true that marketing absolutely has to have the long term. I'm but with all the digital marketing advancements we've had in mar tech in the last. Let's say five years right. which is it used to be two hundred products or one hundred fifty products now? It's eight thousand products for tackling that MAR tech stack in trying to improve marketing. That I feel like marketing now actually has to balance both short and long-term where salespeople those people it yes. It's more short term if you're selling kind of a commodity I'm over simplifying right but a commodity product but you may have very long term big relationship sales go over time. There's always the outliers in the comments. Both you and I are making but do think marketing now has more of this challenge between this kind of short term you know. Lead generation integration can even be driving sales through through ECOMMERCE online All of that which feels a lot more sales right short term right. Yeah I mean certainly. You're right that the the lines are blurring and especially when you're dealing with Some of the the more The technical aspects you know online Online marketing efforts there linked in much more tightly to sales But but yeah in in sort of a a a you know a a template you could say the sort of archetypal thing When I when I am envisioning marketing it is kind of the slow burn? Like a lot of the activities that I talk about with my clients Around the concepts of how do you become a recognized expert in your field. You know that was the topic of my book. bookstand out and it's that's never something that that happens overnight If you are establishing an expert reputation as an individual L. or a strategy of preeminence in your industry as a as a company certainly there's there's lots of great things that you can do to make an immediate mark mark but but it is generally a strategy to please itself out over a period of time Thus I think that the fundamentally only longer term orientation of marketing but is technology changing it. Lake everything absolutely right right. Well you know another part sort of marketing is really around this whole brand which is one of the other sort of bullish embarrassed. Questions I had on people can be brands just like companies and I know that you spend and a lot of time helping people understand You know they say people could be you know entire teams or individuals and and these are my words but almost becoming more self aware of what their unique strengths are in order to double down on those begin to think about how do I create More of a personal brand internally like people go oh we need to be done oh she or he is exactly that person right because because your brand starts to associate with that kind of insider understanding and so where would you advise individuals to start on this journey. Ernie of you know what I actually want to build my brand up internally for being known for something or even external and becoming more of a thought leader. What's what started that journey? You would advise vise people to go on. Yeah it's a it's an important question. Fundamentally of of done as you indicated a lot of research into this question you know how wow do you really get known for your expertise Either inside your company inside your industry and what I discovered and I wrote about this in standout written about it for the Harvard Business Review. Is that fundamentally. There are three key elements of Becoming a recognized expert and they are content creation creation social proof and your network. And I'll explain that really briefly But the three really work together in a powerful way I'm I'm content. Creation is is basically just as the name implies you have to somehow in some format be sharing your ideas now. It could be something as low key as being the person who speak up in meetings or doing a lunch and learn for your colleagues or it could be something You know slightly. More elaborate like speaking in presenting was ending conference or writing an article for an industry newsletter or your company Your your company intranet or something like that but the the bottom line is if you don't share your ideas no one will know that you have ideas much less that they're good ideas see have to get that out there. Number two is social proof oof which basically is is just a shorthand in term used by psychologists for your credibility. Why is it that you're credible inuit? Why should people listen to you and so there's a lot lot of levers that you can move to try to help with whether it's Becoming the head of a professional association in your town maybe it's volunteering to be the chair of a certain committee. Eighty may be it is Working on you know working with a key client or you know having having some other thing maybe your team Got The you know by far the best results of any team in the company you know whatever it is but it gives you the credibility so people say oh I should I should be listening to her and then finally it's your network because of course if you're doing these other pieces that's great but if you're doing them in isolation it doesn't really do a lot of good. You need a network of people who you know so that you can tap into the best ideas but also that they know you and can become an ambassador to start spreading the word about what you're doing if you have those three the pieces in place. That's really what enables you to to get known and get recognized yet and I'd say this there's a couple of questions I get fairly frequently and this is one of them how to use sort of balance a brand when you work in a big company so you know your own brand of what you want to be known for not just internally but external like how do you balance that. That's one big question. I get another one is the sort of thought leadership title or thought leader title. And and I'm sure you know Sally Hogshead and it was this whole like. What are your strengths like? So you could learn sort of what you were going to pivot into and and One of the pieces of advice she gave was listened to what people say about you and that sort of shapes like where you have the strengths that you may not be aware of and so when people started saying. Hey I think she's really a thought leader or she's coming up with unique content than I felt like I had that social proof right that okay you know I if I just call myself that that's a little bit different but if people are starting to say that in agree with it then I feel a lot more comfortable having people say in so. That's this one question I get often is. I WANNA become viewed more as a thought leader or I wanted to be known for these certain things and what would you advise someone to say. What should I be known for? How do I even identify what I'm going to use those those three things like? What am I going to create content about and what network would I reach out to like?.