Listen: Interpol, Vladimir Putin, Bill Browder discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Regime commits murders. They do it in country. They do it outside the country. They do financial crimes criminal enterprise. And so it's effectively by allowing Russia to be a member of INTERPOL, you're allowing criminals to have access to your information. I'm Benjamin witness. And this is the law fair podcast, March sixteenth two thousand nineteen Bill Browder human rights campaigner fo of Ladimir Putin seems to get arrested whenever he travels abroad as a result of red notices and diffusion orders issued by Vladimir Putin through the INTERPOL police organization. These incidents have highlighted the abusive INTERPOL via thar, -tarian governments. And they raise a really important question. Should we be participating in an international police organization with governments that use that organization to harass and arrest their enemies on the show today, we have to really thoughtful people on this subject with somewhat different points of view, although a lot of common ground Bill Browder himself along with Jay, go Russell. The head of an organization called fair trials which has worked to reform INTERPOL and make it less susceptible to abuse. Bill argues for kicking the bums out having police cooperation only between countries that observe civilized norms of law enforcement. Jay, go makes the case for mending not ending an inclusive international police organization, it's a great discussion of a complicated issue. And it's our four hundred episode whether it's really are four hundred episode. We don't know, but we're calling it episode four hundred it's the law fair podcast episode four hundred Woohoo, Bill Browder and Jay go Russell debate INTERPOL, and authoritarian governments. So guys I want to start by just having you both lay out the parameters of the dispute what is agreed upon between you and what is not. Agreed upon so Bill give us the case against INTERPOL. And what is you know, what is the problem here? And then Alaska Jay, go to sort of give us which part of that he agrees with and which part of that he thinks is incorrect so INTERPOL is the international police organisation. It's inferior a quite useful and and positive contribution to society because the main purpose is to catch fugitives. If somebody let's say commits a crime in the United States, and then flees to Canada INTERPOL is supposed to catch them as they crossed the border or do various other types of things. And so it's a way for von force -ment to work together. Internationally to catch bad guys. The problem is that every country in the world, minus one or two is a member of INTERPOL and not every country in the world. Has the same standards of rule of law decency and honesty as as other country. And so I have a lot of personal experience with this. Because I have over the years become one of the prime enemies of Ladimir Putin. I became his enemy after my lawyer. Sergei Magnitsky was murdered. And I spent the next few years fighting for Justice for him, which led to something called the Magnitsky act, which Putin hates more than anything in retaliation for that. Vladimir Putin has used Interpal we're coming up now to the seventh time where they've tried to use the INTERPOL arrest warrant system, and there's several different types of restaurants show. Go into a second to have me arrested and INTERPOL in theory has a safeguard against this. I say in theory, which is a constitution, which says that countries shouldn't use inner bowl to arrest political opponents or. People for religious reasons or for military reasons, and Mike has been clearly defined as a political persecution case Vladimir Putin is clearly out to get me because of what I've done with the Magnitsky act.."