Spencer Ackerman, Afghanistan, Nicole Sandler discussed on The Nicole Sandler Show


Snack. You may god protect our troops. Our diplomats all americans serving in harm's way and good for him. Okay obviously his administration had a breakdown in intelligence was an intelligence failure if they really believed that the that the country would not fall to the taliban in a matter of days if not hours after we pulled out then they were wrong and yes there was a communications and intelligence issue there but i still give him more credit than anybody else now. I don't know what spencer ackerman is gonna say. So let me tell you a little bit about the guest. We have coming up. Spencer ackerman has been covering National security issues for decades He was You know he's one of the og Bloggers he he was doing this. I think at fire dog lake years ago and he's worked everywhere the new republic he's been at the daily beast for the last however long. I don't know how long it's been And now he does his own thing. He has his own A sub stack newsletter. Hello doesn't everybody. His is called forever wars so you go to forever. Wars dot sub stack dot com. And you'll get spencer ackerman's newsletter A lot of it sort of goes hand in hand with the book. The book reign of terror. How the nine. Eleven era destabilized. America and produce trump just hit stores on tuesday I'm to get spencer ackerman on the phone. Yes he will be on the phone today. And although i wanna play for you i should wait till he's on the line to play this actually Okay so Let's give him a call and Yeah let's get him on the line. We're just doing alive because we can show you. This is live radio. everybody so Hello hey spencer. It's nicole sandler colin article. How are you know pretty hanging hanging in there. Today we are live on the air I've been explaining to the listeners. About the book. Which i'm sure they've already heard about. It's called reign of terror. How the nine eleven era destabilized america and produce trump. it just hit stores on tuesday. And there's something to be said for timing. Although i'm sure you would preferred the events that happened over the weekend. Maybe not have happened the way they did. Yeah certainly this isn't. This isn't visiting something anyone know it but to be sure to be more precise what what's happening chewed. The people left behind in. Afghanistan is not what anybody wants getting us. The hell out of afghanistan is something a lot of people wanted and something that You know in other. Under other circumstances we'd be celebrating. Wouldn't eat and i. I think that what we're seeing is not an alternative to the war. Which is how it is being constantly described. What we are seeing is the fruits of the war. The suffering of afghans. That we are seeing now is the direct result of what has followed not only twenty years of futile disastrous war but the result of american destabilization of afghanistan that went back to the nineteen eighties as aided the afghan resistance to the soviet occupation. Alongside the pakistanis and the saudis and all of the history is getting flattened and that risks. Repeating it all of this history is getting flattened and that risks repeating it. So you're saying this is far from over right with this. This is they're still Hostilities they're still unsettled business. They're still the remnants of the so called war on terror in afghanistan And and we're not going to be free of that for some time if ever is out that no that's not what what i'm saying. Although that is true. What i'm saying is that the war itself is directly responsible for this carnage we are talking about this carnage the awful disgusting images of people leaping the cert or falling to certain death from c. Seventeen because they try and flee the war that prime free the taliban that is the result that is the only enduring thing that what was once called operation. Enduring freedom has yielded a human disaster. What is happening. I think in the discourse around this over the last several days and in particular today the overwhelming desire to pretend that more war would ultimately reduce this circumstance instead of exacerbating and if we allow that to take root then. The next afghanistan war is nigh and it won't even necessarily be outside of afghanistan. We heard president biden you today that he reserves the right to drop bombs on afghanistan as he sees fit and that is deeply in keeping with the way the united states for instance drew From iraq only to ultimately re- escalate because of perceived national security needs. And to your to the that you brought up earlier. It is very very true that most of the architecture of the war on terror the math surveillance immigration giving counterterrorism sheen indefinite detention all of the other components the existence of the department of homeland security. That was used against american citizens So vividly on the streets west summer all of that remains in place. All of that remains on address. All of that remains tools for the next authoritarian. Oh boy that's what my book of that. Yeah it is. We're going to get into the book for a moment. I just you know. I went looking to see. I didn't have time to read the whole book. I'm midway through it i. It's it's a brilliant book and it's intriguing and fascinating But i want looking online to see what i could find any interviews. You've zone about the book just to get some insight and i found something from almost ten years ago You didn't ask me anything and you have one question posted. And it was what was the what would be the worst consequence of leaving afghanistan. I'm sure you recall this. Yes no. I have no idea watch okay. You asked me what i did like years ago. I would have no way of okay. Let's let's let's listen here. we go. It's asks spencer ackerman. Anything a reader asked. What do you foresee as the worst consequence of pulling out of afghanistan consequences. Point out of afghanistan is from as best as i can tell and i don't wanna play afghanistan experts A problem for afghanistan. It will be a problem for afghans which is to say. Internal collapse of afghanistan built on shaky foundations award of the international community economically A fracture place politically And increasingly unable to reconcile itself to a circumstance that seemingly most afghans want which is the end of thirty years of conflict Institution building in. Afghanistan is a failure It's proven itself. Ultimately to be following the administration has vacillated i think both in its internal deliberations and in public presentations between triaging a terrible situation and setting itself lofty goals for institutional building while telling both itself congress and the public wasn't doing these things anymore and this is an internal contradiction that the administration never fully resolved the consequences of of the last couple years. Bear that out and afghanistan itself may not be in a position to internally reconcile one of the more terrifying prospects that i've heard from a good friend of mine he's lived in in afghanistan for the last two years is that even if the best case scenarios For the west pan out which is to say the taliban the karzai administration. The pakistanis in the united states managed to come to some kind of peace deal The former allies northern allies the warlords initially Help the us Invade afghanistan take kabul from the taliban most of them non-pashtoons We'll find that circumstance absolutely unacceptable and we'll have a civil war even in the case of taliban karzai peace deal That strikes me. Is you know. Probably a possibility worth considering and triaging but from the perspective of what the us can do mitigated. I'm not alternately certain it strikes me as foolhardy to say that Once the us leads al qaeda will stream back into afghanistan evidence. They're powerful enough to do so. There's also very little evidence that the taliban and find that to be such an important fact about there's teaching situation they would sacrifice a further chance victory in the name of an alliance with all..

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