FBI, Waco, David Koresh discussed on Extension 720 with Justin Kaufmann
Joe. Get Tracy by the chance 1961 on birds. Of course it didn't hurt, Dan tells Group also recorded three months they didn't charge either. He did a lot of stuff, mostly under the radar. But some stuff is revolutionary like arguably the first surf guitar tune stampede in 1959, But that was way are talking to Gary Ness ner stalling for time. My Life is an FBI hostage negotiator. And it is just a great book. Also an inspiration for Waco, the TV event on Paramount and probably a lot more. And I'm still somewhat stunned that the history that we're talking about goes back really, to the to the seventies, and you were saying that since since Waco it's more accepted. With regard to the FBI had no wonder about Waco. By the way was the April 19th date. You know, the the Battle of Lexington and Concord, The Norman invasion was that selected or did that just happen? Well, I was already gone from scene then, but I think it just just happened. It was not purposefully selected. Um, the day before they sort of got affirmation from corrections assistant that Despite what he had indicated he had not really begun to write the seven seals that were to be completed before they would surrender, and I think they decided to go on in, but, uh Yeah, it's You know negotiations as I imagined what was accepted embraced in the F B I, but we have long had Sort of. Ah, you know, Yang and Yang within law enforcement. There's always law enforcement is a paramilitary entity and federal state local, and there's always been a pushing a pull against those who want. Oh, Do things a certain way and those who want to exercise the use of force. But for me, particularly these times where law enforcement actions are being so closely scrutinized. It's really critical that whatever we do with stands Scrutiny of not only a court of law but a court of public opinion. Did we show restraint? Did we make every reasonable effort to resolve the situation peacefully and that we Or when we resorted to the use of force was it with ample justification? I mean, could've case be made that we had no choice but to Attempt to try to save someone's life and those of the criteria. I think that we have to meet Before we engage in something more difficult, You know, 33 years after Waco we had 85 day siege in Montana with Freeman, a right wing militia group and This time the negotiators were my team was in charge of studying strategy in the new director Louis Freeh's fully supported it, and you know it took 85 days, but no shots were fired. Everybody came out peaceful ending. And it fell off the radar screen in the news media because nobody died. No fire, and that was the way we have done things before Waco and it has become the way we've done things. After and sense, So Waco was really a very unique situation so many ways, but it was really a departure from the norm. Were you involved in that from the beginning of the FBI's involvement? Of the negotiation program. Well off of of the basically targeting Waco on targeting is probably the wrong word. But at the point it became on the FBI's radar that we might have a problem in Texas. Were you in on it that early No. The the FBI had been is I recall. There have been some Australian there were there were branch civilians who had come from several countries in someone more Australian and head. Raised a complaint to their government that there was abuse ongoing. Their government informed the U. S government, which brought the FBI into make a preliminary inquiry, which it did, and there was no The investigation was closed without further action. I wasn't involved in that that happened at a local level, but obviously the day of the shootout between the bureau of alcohol, tobacco farms and civilians. Now the federal agents have been killed that that's what triggered the FBI coming into it to resolve it. The entire siege. Surprised me on ly because, and I was actually in in Austin for a few years around this time, David Koresh was sort of well known in Waco. He left the compound somewhat regularly. The sheriff liked him a lot, You know, And there were other people who are who interacted with him all the time. And the Australian. You're talking about Mark, I think was his name. He was just hell bent on making an issue. Over many points, for better or worse truth or not, And what? I always wondered Wass that especially when you know the child abuse charges began to be raised, which I think was the first one that maybe open some federalized too. Hey, maybe we need to look at this. But when that happened, I would have thought they easily could have gotten David Koresh because he left the compound fairly regularly. Early on. Why didn't they just arrest him when he was away from there? Well, I think the investigations that were conducted after Waco pretty much agree with you on that point that The preferred method would would have been to arrest the leaders the leader away. In fact, three years later in the Montana incident, this time with the FBI, initiating it. We did just that. We arrested the leaders. Away from the others. And while that did not immediately resolve, but it certainly changed the entire complexion of it. So yeah, I think you know, there's a lot of speculation that he was on agency on the chopping block. Federally. They had a lot of enemies in Congress, and that They were hoping to get a pretty dramatic incident that would showcase their contributions to Federal law.