Facebook, Cheryl Cheryl, Cheryl Roy discussed on Recode Decode
You're the kind of person that likes dive deep or you just want to keep up with the current political landscape this show is for you subscribe to the weeds or free right now in favour pocket staff to get new episodes automatically from box and the box media podcast network. We're here with Steven Levy. He's a well known tech journalist. I've worked Around him not with him. Actually at anything at In Silicon Valley for many years He's the author of a new book. Facebook the inside story. We got unprecedented access to mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg so in building this company. I think we can agree. He's a he's a killer he's a killer like that's another thing. God is this guy was GonNa win at all costs. Essentially which is I think in element bays owes of gates much more so gates. He reminds me quite a bit of gates when I when there was his mentor. Yeah he told Me Bill Gates was his mentor in that podcast which I was surprised but not in any way surprise Roy right well when I interviewed Bill Gates you know he actually brought up the comparison and some things like they both dropped out of Harvard. Then these big companies though gates made sure. I knew that he did more coating gates than more code album. He made sure to get that one in well. It's interesting because gates in. My experience is a fundamentally unpleasant person who then became relatively pleasant because of the donations. He's making all around the Glory Roy Interviewing Bill Gates now is so different than a winning. There's Microsoft is still there. It's still the same personality is still there which is interesting. But he's certainly evolved as a person But in general you know very Ungenerous Always insulting other people's products Always wanting to be on top. You know it's a Mary. It's a big strain which mark has in spades here which is also the case so he starts to face facebook. You have the Sean Parker stuff you know telling that story. Talk a little bit about how it evolved because he went through a number of Ceos COO's and people. Before he settled on Cheryl Roy where he always had sort of a second in command and the person's job was to do the things that he didn't WanNa do right right. Yeah yeah he loved product and what he wanted to do was build the product design of products. And I got hold of this notebook. He always kept his little notebook Where he wrote his visions and He had destroyed them after a certain number of years and again Because what he was wanted by the exposure of his early where they were called the book of challenge. One of the key book is called the Book of change and that was the book that in two thousand six. He gave all his ideas for the news feed and for open registration which is when facebook opened up from students to the whole world And he also talked about how facebook would operate. He'll be this amazing information utility where everyone could learn about everyone else and even at a few pages about these things equal dork profiles Serve there will be profiles of people who hadn't signed up on facebook. And so when you're talking about that idea this idea of his vision. Tuck who does that? And why did he destroy them? Well he's supposed to his. He told me he destroyed them because of he didn't want people to Cherry pick them of like they did with his instant messages and balancing things present cherry picked. That's what he said but okay fine. Whatever okay yeah he because when even just recently we did this excerpt in wired and it focused on the notebooks. And I asked them again. You know I'm able to Part of the accesses. I just send him a message and he responded within a couple of hours and I said you know really what would you do? Some people told me it was for legal reasons. He's no no no no no. It was because I was affected by that I didn't want this stuff Exposed out of context Well context is depends on. Who's saying to the contest? So Cheryl Cheryl so he he brings Cheryl Roy so they have this debacle call beacon covered it and heavily which was a product which we mentioned it frequently what you do when you went on the web and when you bought something if you missed a little dialog box that flashed up and didn't respond to as a default was the purchase would be shared with all the people in your newsfeed and literally? Someone bought an engagement ring were their prospective fiance and this showed up on her news feed of the because of this product and it was a disaster for the company tone of which had been throughout his history of scraping privacy violations listening about people's and we're not using information in fact they were that this kind of pattern of and to me that was beacon was just another example of the same thing and it led to the consent decree with the Federal Government. Roy was one of the number of things that led to that Twenty eleven to consent Decree So after that it was he felt that while. I really need to bring on something to help. This company grow up really. And why did they do beacon was is it 'cause mark or what what what the DNA companies always the DNA because it was mark? I'm basically and this is something that happened. Not just beacon but a number of things go through all of them where people close the mark top. Some of his top technical people stopped engineers say him mark. This isn't a good idea. Sometimes even say mark this is just wrong and he would overrule them right. He would say Kleenex to high school. There were several different things that but I guess the key thing always around privacy. The KIEF FACEBOOK is the launch of the news feed and that was something that when it first showed up There was a huge most facebook users were objecting to it and you know this was something that be previously before the news feed. You had to look at people's profiles to learn what they were up to like go. What's CARAS profile? And then I'd learn. Oh baby you know whatever or whatever but the newsfeed changing all that information would be pushed out you and it was a different experience. Some people felt their privacy was being violated and mark said We've faced of this. I mean people were panicking facebook but mark eventually came to understand that actually people were using the news feed and loved it and he put some privacy features in there was another quote. I was surprised by voyeuristic. Pete what you learned in college got into the Face Mash problem where he scraped and stole right other people's information without their consent right right so unquote was really telling is yes. The people were more voyeuristic. Not that I did anything wrong but that. Wow this is an insight that I need to use later in my like Cherry. Pick the happen. The newsfeed turned out to facebook by far. Most successful products are still. That lesson. He took was listen. People are GonNa Squawk but this is good for them. They really WANNA share so if we withstand the storm things will be okay. But we're going to talk about the completing of lots of things so just because of a success in one area. It doesn't mean privacy violations or good in another room down and so he tends to conflate a lot like and I think that's very common in Silicon Valley's I was right about this and therefore I'm right about everything. I think that happens. Lots of founder driven companies which is unfortunate problem and then no one goes against them. You know trump sort of plays that game. I'm right you'll see. I won that kind of thing. So it's IT'S A it's a quality of a certain personality that tends to give them success and also tends to be the thing that makes them undone so he gets Cheryl good to share right so so he's looking for his executive right and you think back to Google when they needed to C. E. O. A little on. Interestingly marks executive was not a technical person right it was a great manager? Someone who built the business side of a company Cheryl of Physical later bones? Google ads showing outs and They they met. It was kind of like dating almost thing professional dating they went to the Flea Street. Cafe closed the joint and went to Charles Place and she had to throw him out. Something like you know you know. My kids are asleep. My husband is up there. You know I got up tomorrow morning. Leave here and but something clicked. And she took the job she was going to be have more thority than any previous lieutenants high But the split was very stark that he would get all the products stuff and everything else all the stuff that didn't interest him like sales. Were policy She was going to be in charge of the content on their Sharon policing the content And these are things that He thought were less important to the future facebook but some turned out to be very important to the future facing right and so for a long time. They had a very copacetic relationship. A very meaning that it worked well for both of them in terms. I think they've always had actually a pretty good relationship though. Obviously there's been strains on in the last couple of years but Things the things work great. I mean she. Besides Sales Cheryl also had a role in the culture. I think mark even even mark recognized. There was sort of like a bro Aspect of the culture. It had a lot of dorm room. Dna to it and Cheryl very consciously purge that she made it a friendlier place for women so as you move through this. Everything's going really well. They still have this sort of overhang of a privacy constantly. This idea of an and this pull push pull between free speech and control And I it doesn't really rise until this past few years. Everyone loved them. This was company that was dominating things getting more and more powerful from your perspective. Mark Change in that time period well and changed in some ways you know. He grew up. He got married He had to handle some crises facebook. The Big Crisis. Facebook took place in two thousand twelve when The whole company was always made obsolete because they were slow to pick up mobile right man a little bit about that right and they also had a very unsuccessful. Ipo that was that was harmful And you know it was well at one point They even fell in mobile. They had to make their own phone to compete with of Apple and android. I tell that story for the first time about how the focus was called. Ghost face killer the phone. Yeah and so he. In some senses grew up in another sense he was the same. He was still very very competitive. And these issues where privacy came face to face with a lure of growth it was always growth that one in growth is just huge bed facebook and I spent a lot of time talking about that and the guy they picked ahead the growth team Trauma Palley Appalachia..