Richard discussed on BBC World Service


Certainly a very unusual art gallery and museum and from my perspective I'm gonna say prison it already felt like a nineteen sixties vision of a space age future but Richard would you agree that there was even an even greater tendency in Nemo as late to work towards this kind of of the wilderness yeah I I absolutely for some critics it's a decline that there is certainly there's a movement towards an office space in which areas fifties sci fi novel to life and yet she made the film the margin they went where he actually seems to come out of the fillings was tell me about that yes well it sort of touch the Enuma studio in Copacabana like many visitors and who do you want to talk to for a little while and then then you show your film and the film basically it stops of this extraterrestrial scenarios so in the distance the far distances are flying saucer which gradually turns out to be the the mac building a new toy and then it lands on this this rocky from injury and then near Meyer descends down the ramp and says I. animal skin he has to come from space so he was playing up to this I think for for some architects and critics though there's something slightly disappointing about it and that it became a cliche it was just the thing that he did on it's amusing but you start to realize that the something slightly limited about another aspect I think she sent me a dress and we heard you mention there again is this is how the curves of women in spite his buildings now in some ways that could be seen as anachronistic and problematical into in today's day and age how how should one regard if you think this is a this is what one of the most difficult aspects of looking at them on now because if you say look at the autobiography has us convinced of temple today because of time it's absolutely littered with these drawings of curvaceous young women lying on the beach and and no very come sexualized and drawings objectified and you know from a contemporary perspective caught hold to a quote to just just take at face value and if when you went to studio as well the above his desk there was a notorious photograph of of two naked young women lying on the beach several of the just disabilities and and he he was very clear that what he like to do mostly was first thing in morning is go down to the beach do some drawings of of from young women on the beach and it was over so I mean he's very on reconstructed as a difficulty that I'm looking at him as a mountain okay temporary architect having said that what's it was always interesting for me about the stuff was the you know however problematical it introduced the erotic into modern architecture and coming from a versus perspective where that was absolutely never possible dog section this was it was a revelation for you know the idea that the modern architecture could be pleasurable it could be associated with the policy it could be hedonistic all of those things are really important and I think if we can hold on to that perhaps that would be something Judy on it but what's your view on this I mean he does talk a lot about the causes of youth for women honest okay does influence some amazing buildings with what do you feel about that I mean I think it's something so characteristic of Nehemiah and I think there is a beauty in there as well as in a rustic but it's not in a way that is offensive as people might say he likes his women but when you actually use that as a source of inspiration as a means if you like and trump's form that's in the space that you can experience and see those kind of still slated in such a high magnitude that's all well it's to me so is it points to on to my and to think about some future uniqueness no plans we mention the Oscar Niemeyer designed well into his old age he also married his longtime second tree at ninety eight years old and even up to his death he remained an ardent communist indeed his close friend the Cuban leader Fidel Castro said that he and Nehemiah with a loss to come in this left on the planet since only has about his personal example and once it's as important as its architecture I think so I knew Meyer would not have done what he did had he not increased his own controversial personality I think for example what was mentioned before about the curvature of the women it's just as important for him the curvature of the unique topography of Rio so I think in many ways the reading office it's yes he speaks of the accountant but it's so much ingrained also the Brazilian culture write the first song that you've played off the a girl if you find Emma right talks about this woman that dances as she's walking down the beach and so in many ways the personality of of this man as he described himself right as both an optimist and a pessimist as someone that in many ways cared enormously about other people but at the same time he really didn't care at all I mean when he's saying those critics are saying that because they're either envious or because they don't have anything better to do it shows that there is also this very confrontational position and that's part of his activism I mean it's part of his sense of architecture's design agency that political activism that's part of that Giuliana I mention that he does he married his longtime secretary at ninety eight years old and explain to me what the background levels I didn't know the food in and now it's but he wanted to protect her innocence off to provide for her once he was gone sued the decision to get married so perhaps was based in the sincere you know worry about how she would provide for herself as he wanted to leave some of his own possessions too hot into avoids conflict with his family and there was also this element of being a forever of working and and that like two women that you know he he wanted to to marry a much younger partner and we referred to a little bit leads to prison all of Niemeyer has looking at things from another perspective could you also say that because of Neymar's fame other visiting architects have been overlooked absolutely and that would be for example the case of from the novel by D. who'll was an Italian born nationalized Brazilian architect from the post World War two era who came from what was known as the active part of it a movement in Italy that was translated as the the art of the poor the poor arcade has both connotations and she was a master and a pioneer at working with Ron matter recycled matter as a way of contesting social divisions arm also design activism and the use of materials from a ferry environmental the sensitive perspective many ways she was ahead of her time more than fifty years and only very recently in the last fifteen years she has gained international notoriety not Juliana as a Brazilian architect yourself tell me how much have you been influenced by Nehemiah and how see I was trained as an architect but my master's and PhD in materials science so instead of being the artist architect I become the architect scientist if you like and say once I do my designs in thinking about districts as I wanted to build I often had the problem of thinking wow how do I make sure this will work as a structure so you Indies I see you I ended up taking my research in developing innovative types of concretes to use concrete as well I use concrete in my research yes so you my dream co create two V. zero carbon which for the climate emergency relieving in it's a massive thing C. rivers where it says that you would use concrete but it has to be sustainable absolutely but I wanted to say something else about Nehemiah about sustainability so I think we need to put the perspective in there as well so the times we are in now in the times he was in with the emergence of concrete reinforced concrete's too there has been so much research and I think if he was here with us today he will be one of the first you actually embrace this new technology Ching brace more sustainable concrete I. D. surely believe that Sir Richard if you look around the world now how do you see Neymar has influence and importance is it that yes very much so but I think not necessarily how he might have mentioned it and one of the interesting things about new month is the old blue he he was a communist you know the loss of the rhetoric was political about leveling up and you know what what have you want to push it actually his influence in architectural terms has been so much in terms of the production of icons which is you know so much to do with the kind of liberal capitalistic economy that we live in now and we are members of I think I must be back in two thousand and two and was a serpentine pavilion in London that he designed a school room adult foster talking about so the office also posted was fine yes but first a huge fan of it his I think it was precisely because of the iconic qualities the building which he said he had mostly never seen you know that he was interested in the in the way that they were translated three photographs in particular and in a mediated in those ways and in you know we'll so you look at some sovereignty to us a very important time British Iraqi architect too tight quite recently if you look at her work then that there's a very clear influence from him she was very explicit about set on the the interest for her with new laws to do with the creation of unique iconic forms and it's not the economy the the economy is the production of iconic forms is there so much to do with where we are now with architecture but think in a way is you know so you fall from where we have a house talks about that journey has been a real interest me and that is just lovely to you why do you think which is still remembered Niemeyer and his contribution to architecture because as controversial as he was in his architecture wise it's unquestionable that he was an architect and an activist without whom the making of architecture Brazilian architecture and modernism in the world would not have been the same his mischievous defiance right over span of almost eighty years let's say depending on how you see where his architecture really began challenges so many different assumptions through the making of space through the making of monumentality zoom through defining structure and exploring what environment is and from the element of surprise to the element of absurdity of such as would be for many for example of the building and in need that all right the contemporary art museum and so there's this absurdity also plays a role in what design activism can be well many thanks to all three of you Maria pies guti eras Richard Williams and Giuliana Columbia Holly the extracts from the curves of timely translated by Isabel mode at the bridge and let me leave you with one last parting thought from Oscar Niemeyer who died at the grand old age of one hundred and four in twenty twelve he said with him and then we promise life is just a sign that so well in his case having worked in around six hundred projects in the career of almost eighty years it was a very profound and meaningful sign join us next week on the forum and sees now here on.

Coming up next