Seller TV. I'm Taryn Winter. Brill. We're here with Julie Cotino. She's the author of Twist How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. It's Great to Have you With Us. Glad to Be Here, Terence. So first off to what does twist refer isn't a verb. Is it? A noun? Do tell. It's both. Actually. Okay. So twist is a noun like a plot twist writing, you know, new and exciting about your bank brand in your business, And it's also the verb to twist things to Not a category. Best practices brands that you love that had nothing to do with your brand. And then you twist those best practices with your business. Okay, So tell us about the genesis for putting this in writing. What did you find was missing. What was the mistake? People are making that you're trying to fix with the book. Yeah, I think it's so hard these days to stand out in any category. There's so much competition. Yeah, fact I just got back from teaching a class with Tyra Banks. Stanford at the Graduate School of his Yes, Wow. And tire always says that it's better to be different than to be better. And I think that's true. I don't guides enough anymore for business is just to be really good at what they do. Unfortunately, I think they have to be really good what they do, and they have to be unique and stand out. So that's why I wrote the book. I really want to help businesses of all sizes. Learned how to stand out breakthrough. Make the most of the tiny budgets that we have this day's entire bags. Probably say that it was applicable to her right in her time. She was different. Yeah, right. She broke through. She had to differentiate herself. And it's also about personal branding as well in the book. Sure, And I like you discussing the book. Sort of the moment. You know, this'd idea thing. Twist approach came to be involved in barrage. Please tell us a little bit about it story it is, Yeah. It was in the winter of 2002 and I was a branding consultant. I was traveling a lot, and I was at Newark Airport, having a very ho hum experience. You know, I really love to visit clients. But I don't really love to travel because I find that the whole process is kind of boring. You know, there isn't a twist, and in this particular day I was at Newark Airport, and I looked up and all of a sudden I saw these McDonald's golden arches on the tail fin of an airplane. And in that moment, I thought to myself, that's an air line that has a twist. You know that's going to be different. It's gonna have more friendly attitude, maybe a menu of options. You know, McDonald's likes to supersize things. So maybe I could order a regular economy. See, See, the plane was really crowded and then supersized my seat. So I actually start to get really excited about this airline experience. And then I looked up again and I realized it was a mirage. It was the reflection of the food court on the airplane window, and there happened to be a jet parked there. How serendipitous like I mean, the angles were you were sitting alive. A lot goes into that timing. It was crazy, and it really was only about 30 seconds. But it was 30 seconds. That changed my life. A lightbulb epiphany moment. Exactly what What did you do next? You said to yourself. I said, That's how you do it. You know, I was working on some clients and I went back and I said I was working with the cosmetics client. I said, Well, this is how we're going to innovate for this client. We're going to stop worrying about what all the competition does. You know it was Avon at the time is that we're not gonna look at Revlon or Loreal or Mary Kay. We're gonna look at brands that have great experiences, but in different categories and take those experiences and twist them back, and we did that, and we came up with one hour brainstorming tons of new idea. Is that we had never approached before, And from that moment on, I've been I've been twisting after the race and twisted. So can you give us some real life examples and twist stories that you mentioned Avon? How you know, putting this execution of the twist, so to speak. Well, I actually had the great fortune to work for Virgin for many years of is the head of brands Richard Branch, Richard Branson and one of the reasons I was so excited when they called me to go work there. Most of us like to be out.