Officer, Glendale, Sheriff Paul Penzone discussed on Mac and Gaydos


Like the governor Doug Ducey Hereson cinema. The senior Senator from Arizona, Martha mcsally, the names go on and on one person we like to have in as always is the Maricopa County sheriff Paul Penzone. He is agreed to come in one more time for his monthly exclusive interview. How are you doing today? Sheriff one more time what happened. Though, I've been coming in. I'm surprised because the way, you know, Gaydos, pops his mouth off does whatever, you know. That's what they pay me to do. I live. He's a tough guy when the Microsoft is not come on. Muted? He's a whole different guy. Goodness, Gregory ever been muted, man. It's true. Is he's not hard to mute me. There you go. So we gotta talk about this Glendale thing. It's been the big story for the last few days. It happened in two thousand seventeen were hearing about it. Now, there's a lawsuit. There was an incident where the Glendale police had pulled over a car the guy in the passenger side kind of being a pill didn't really want to help the police out didn't really want to give him an ide- struggled a little bit with his seat belt and the officer ended up teasing the guy eleven times. Is there ever reason to tasers man eleven times? You saw the video tell me what your thoughts were mostly can we start there? Can we flip the script a little bit? I as a as a as you're watching what did you take? Well, usually on the side of police to start any video or body camera. And that's where I always start on the side of the police because I know that you guys have the toughest job around. I just don't know how you taste the guy eleven times in the last time, you tease him in the testicle after after five I'm thinking you've got to change your tactics. It's not working why keep going down this road that may endanger him because I I didn't know you could be taste that many times. I thought your heart. Couldn't take it. And it endangers the family and other people around you, I would have thought three or four times changed tactics. And try some different west was asking not to not to avoid. I just want to get your perspectives. Because first of all you have insight more so than most when it comes a lot of law enforcement things. But as members of the community, your perspective and your opinion on it. I want to hear your thoughts before I answered I'm going to answer with all due respect to the chief and Glendale. He's got a tough job like myself in normally I try to I try to leave organizations. Issues in circumstances to to themselves, and I'll be respectful to that. Now. So to say that someone should be as a lotta times or not. We shouldn't be measuring on the number of as as we. We should be looking at it and saying under those circumstances, what is appropriate force. And if that is inappropriate force is it appropriate. Inappropriate force that just want a little bit too far. Or did. It was it. So agreed that it requires a more significant response by the agency. So in cases, such as these I think any common citizen without law enforcement training. Look at it and have considerable concern as to why how the application wasn't wasn't necessary. And I don't think you need a share for anybody else to tell you that in those circumstances. And there will be times in my agency. No different that deputies use force. That is well beyond that, which we believe which we believe is is appropriate or necessary. And then how do we take action on it? How do we address in? How we measure doesn't happen again in this circumstance like many in my agency that have occurred or will occur. Don't don't reflect what good law enforcement should look like. Is it is one of those things where you know. You're how do I say this? We had it. We had police officer on yesterday. And what he said is if you don't comply one of the bad cops because there's bad people in every business. No matter what it is. You know, we're talking small small number people if you don't comply the guy we really wasn't trying to comply very very well. If you don't do that one of the cops whose not one of the good ones is going to do something like that. Well, I think in every circumstance. An event leads to a response, and how we manage the response to find our ability to manage stress and circumstances, but by the way. Just Tatum is a guy that we put on from Tucson police are wondering who responded to not to. I don't know Brandon. I'm not going to judge them on it. But it's not just bad coughs. Okay. There are good cops and good deputies who have had great reputations before ever reason as humans in certain circumstances fail. Okay. Their actions fail the standard of law enforcement. So I think that just automatically predetermined by saying well that person, you know, you gave a bad cop an opportunity to do something. That was inappropriate now. There are times when people great track records have done exceptional work make or or just, you know, forever reason in that circumstance their eagle their pride the things that you don't know about them personally that occurred earlier in the day during the week or whatever and they're off the rails are job no different than how we treat the community. So there are bad people in the community that do bad things. There are good people in the community that make bad decisions or do bad things. We should always respond to the action in. Judge on that. So in a case like this. The officers have to respond to that person's action and be appropriate and inappropriate. Then we do the same with the officers of the deputies. We look at your action, we say not acceptable. And what is the appropriate response for the organization to either address it or to ensure that you mitigate it doesn't happen again? But when you saw that video didn't that make you mad? You guys are gonna you're not gonna you know, when I tell you this. I only saw pieces of it and actually watch it through because I have videos on my own organization to worry about. But you know, some of my staff kind of told me about it and actually a close friend who's this community member told me about it last week, and it's disappointing from the aspect that anytime somebody in uniform does something that gives the community impression that we're excessive or abusive or that we're not to be trusted with these tools and resources that we have it hurts all of us. And that's not okay. It's not it's not good for any of us. You know, you just brought up something about I a key in on with the mayor COPA county. Sheriff Paul Penzone for his monthly exclusive. It makes everybody look bad. What surprise? Me in the video. And and you saw bits and pieces which surprised me at that that I don't remember at any point another officer saying okay enough. Okay. Let's try something different did or didn't. He did not. I didn't see any other officer say, hey, hold up. Let's try something different. I mean, I know you're not going to say that in the middle of scuffle. But I didn't see any other officer have a problem with that. Is there this meant you were Phoenix PD for a number of years? You're now sheriff was there ever a time you had to pull it a fellow officer back or or or maybe intercede and say, look this isn't working right now or not cool. Let's do something different. Or is it that mob mentality of we gotta get this guy to comply. No matter what we're all in this together. Well, I'm sure to some extent there is kind of that that energy that believes to others. But I think that it's the more realistic expectation because of human nature. Okay. Doesn't mean it's the best. Where the right way, but it because of human nature, the more realistic things that I have seen is you'll see another officer intercede. In other words, they're not necessarily pull you back. But they know that what is what is it is maybe borderline or to excessive? So they're gonna do they're going to take the lead to diminish your ability to actually behave in that way. It's it's something that we want to see more of which is, you know, leadership in those moments by everybody's saying, hey, oh tap, the breaks that's not appropriate, but human nature is human nature, and we have to work in correct? I I will tell you that in my office not easy decisions. But I've been supervisors that I have demoted because I felt like on a scene they fail to take the lead and take charge. And I try my best to make the right decision. Every circumstance as chief many others do. It's a it's a dynamic evolving world, and there are no excuses, and you know, looking back after an event and trying to clean it up and get it right is not always easy. So. It's just the right words. I wish I could say something that of salt better understand this put on the words. I mean, you guys we're trying to promote yourselves, and I want to be supportive of of my colleague in agency in the men and women who do it the right way in a circumstance like that individual, whatever the circumstances were that chief deals with the matter that he's think yes, let's make let's make sure everybody understands we're not against Glendale PD or any law enforcement agency. But we've talked about this with the Mesa PD the videos that came out almost in succession, it's uncomfortable to watch. But you guys, you know, law enforcement they're doing a job not many of us could do. But is there are always a better way to do the job. That's what we're trying to. You know, what I've seen? It's different. Now is I don't know why. And I don't know if it's just like, you know, as you get older, you you sound like your parents like that when I was a kid, we didn't, you know, as a younger officer. We didn't have tasers and a lot of tools that are available today. And I do see a more aggressive deployment of some of those tools are resource. Then I recall back in the days when I was in the street. You know, we did a lot of hands on me. We're great at it. But it was a lot more physicality than it was using some of these tools, and because the tools are so readily accessible and seem to mitigate threats immediately that I do think we're premature in choosing them, and we're premature and using them, and we're premature abusing them. So you know, that's something that we collectively at the look at law enforcement. Mac and Gaydos, best of.

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