President Trump, Ukraine, Mr Mr Parnasse discussed on MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)
The show weeknights at nine eastern on. MSNBC tonight we will present part two of my interview with left Parnis. Now as I said before the first part of the interview last night and I want to reiterate now Mr Partners is under federal indictment. He was one of four defendants charged in early October. With multiple felonies related to an alleged scheme to funnel four and otherwise illegal donations to various Republican publican candidates and campaigns including more than three hundred thousand dollars in allegedly illegal donation to the main super pacs. Supporting the president's reelection. Mr Parnell is under indictment. He says he would like to cooperate with the impeachment investigators. He says he would also like to cooperate. Operate with the federal prosecutors who have charged him in the southern district of New York but he is right now out on bond awaiting trial and I will just mention at the outset that I am cognizant of the fact that we are presenting the second part of this interview tonight rather than just diving right right into some of the other momentous and historic news of today including the start today of the Senate trial of President Trump today marks only the third third time in US history that an American president has faced an impeachment trial in the Senate and it was a solemn beginning today the administering of the oath to the chief the justice of the Supreme Court the administering the oath to all senators all of the senators individually signing their names to the oath one by one in alphabetical order. Solemn thing it's a sobering thing this is a big deal and it is worse worth you know. Massive headlines is that it's getting all over the country it is absolutely worth marking this day in history. It is also worth noting that the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office today today issued a ruling that it was illegal for president trump to withhold aid to Ukraine as part of this scheme that what he did there was against the law all for that to be arriving today that ruling from the Government Accountability Office on the day that the Senate impeachment trial starts and this is all a big deal but it's also becoming clear that what happens next in the impeachment of president trump in this senate trial may depend in part on the additional evidence and witnesses who are still coming forward as the Ukraine scheme is coming more fully to light and so onward. Here's part two all right. One of the main questions. A lot of different people have asked I myself. uh-huh have have asked and have wondered main question asked about Mr Parnassus decision to give this first. Public interview is why why he would speak out publicly while he's out on bond awaiting trial right. That is atypical behavior to say. The least for a federal criminal defendant particularly particularly one who has a sentient lawyer. I mean the common wisdom is that public remarks and remarks to the media could really only disadvantage a defendant in his or her dealings with federal prosecutors. Right if you speak out publicly if you speak to the media it's GonNa hurt your criminal case that is the common wisdom for all federal defendants and all kinds of criminal mental trials. So why Mr Parnasse doing well. In this case Mr says that he has a significant in fear of the Justice Department and specifically he has significant fear of attorney. General William Bar for him. That is not reason to be quiet. That is part of the reason why he's making his case now to the public. My understanding spending a longtime with Mr Parnasse. Doing this interview view is that he believes he's safer putting this stuff out in the public sphere. Then he is keeping his mouth shut while the Justice Department knows what he was involved in and they know what he knows and they have his fate in their hands. My only objective is there. Get the truth out. Because I'd never thought I did. I was doing anything wrong. I still you know I. I regret certain things that I did. Because like you know hurting passenger and you know 'cause that was not something uptick but it was part of. It's like when you're in a war. You think like casualties and stuff like that. It's it's it's bad to say but it was it was I keep saying it was like you know being being in the call I mean and when they say organized Kinda I don't think trump was like org. I think he's like a cult leader the braid now the scary part. And that's what I keep mentioning and people don't understand Stand there's there's a lot of Republicans that would go against him. The only reason if you take a look and you know very well because you've been following the difference between white trump is so a powerful now and he wasn't as powerful and sixteen and seventeen. He became the powerful when he got William Bar. People are scared and my scare. Yes because I think more scared of our Justice Department than of these criminals right now because the scariest part is getting locked than some room and get treated as an animal. When did nothing wrong or or when you're not you know and that's the tool? They're using I mean I mean just because they're trying to scare into not talking and doing what God's help with my my moyer next to me that I know we'll go back for me no matter what would the truth and I'm taking the chance. My wife is scared my kids in there. He says they're trying to scare me into not talking. King Mr Par is referencing. Something specific. Actually that I asked him about in more detail and different part of the interview that I'm GonNa show you just a moment But what Mr describes there as a sort of what he says is is a cultish environment him saying getting out of that cultish environment around the president resident now makes him regret some of his actions that thing that he saying about it being like a cult that he regrets his behavior there that applies as well to the central claim at the heart of the impeachment scandal. which was this concerted effort? That Mister Peres was involved in to accuse former vice president Joe Biden of wrongdoing doing and to get Ukraine to announce investigations of Vice President Biden in terms of the information. The allegations against Vice President Biden. Mr Shokhin mix allegations against Mr Biden. Mr Lukashenko also makes allegations against Mr Biden. Do you believe that those allegations were true. When we were dealing with? When I was in the middle of the thick of things I think I was kind of in? I keep saying it's like a cultish environment of being around president trump because like I've been in DC for two years. I've never left the trump hotel type of situation so I truly believed seeing in different information that was handed to us at that time. That Joe Biden was doing something illegal Not so much hunter Biden but more Joe Biden but after are analyzing all the evidence and sitting back and release. What's a call understanding what's going on? I don't think I don't think vice-president buying anything wrong. I think he he was protecting our country and getting rid of probably a crooked. The Attorney General and people use this to their advantage. A lot of rich people in Ukraine have their agenda and they use US here for their own political stuff so I think this is was a big one in terms of material that was handed over to intelligence on March Twenty Second Mr Lutsenko texts shoe in Russia and and there's a translation Asian that's provided by the committee. Says it's just that if you don't make a decision about Madam you are bringing into question all my allegations including about be. So when he says Madam is he talking about Besser investor group and when he says all allegations including about be about reach Mumbai Buy Yes okay. And it's very small or Biden. I guess it could be either. It was always buy them. Barista was just I mean nobody cares about Berea. S'mores Jeff Ski. It was The concern was biting them. Hunter by in that text message to you is Mr Sankoh saying in effect. Listen if you want me to make these despite allegations you're going to have to get rid of this ambassador. Absolutely was he threatening that. If you didn't get rid of the ambassador. He might withdraw his allegations. He actually drew. He withdrew within several times. He wanted ambassador IANOVICH ousted for his own career reasons. He had clashed with her in her anticorruption efforts. That head butted up against it's ten. Let's Cinco and Shokhin both had an interest in getting rid of US ambassador. Maria von Vich. And it's funny because they both don't like each other the Sean Can Hayslett go. And even though I used to be his underling but They say listen. It's it's a different environment over there in. Its unless you live unless you do business there unless you on the visit there and understand that Bribery and it's just a way of life. I mean regular people at the store do it. They'll bribe the butcher together. Better meet piece of meat and it's normal or get better seats at the concert. So it's like away of life over there so the way the structures up and that's why everybody's hoping Zilenski changes it but I don't know how much he could change with one. Says like there's already embedded Bennett. This was Where once you become in America? It's like you become a politician to serve your country not to make money because you can make money in Ukraine. It's the opposite view. Some of these people pay millions of dollars to get a seat as a politician so once they get there. So it's all about the money and it's all about about the power left Parnis a key fixer and figure in the effort to fit up Vice President Joe Biden with accusations of wrongdoing in Ukraine to force the government to announce investigations into Mr Biden to force out to the US ambassador. Marie Ivanovich who was in the way of that effort. Mr Mr Parnasse now apologizing to that. US Ambassador Ambassador Yvonna Vich we dot last night and as I just showed you Mr Parnasse also says he now now does not believe that Vice President Biden did anything wrong in Ukraine and that Vice Presidents Vice President Biden's actions there which Mr Parnasse helped try to turn into do a scandal in his words. Now he says Mr Biden's actions were taken to protect our country and get rid of a crooked attorney. General by confirming firming the nature of his own communications with that official he refers to as a crooked attorney general. Mr Partners also makes clear that the removal of ambassador avant was a demand from the key. Accusers that he and Mr Giuliani and the president and others have been using to make this this false case against Biden the accusers including boatload Cinco Shokhin Wanted Ivanovich Gone Looks Sankoh explicitly demanded to pardon us that the ambassador be removed or his allegations against Biden might be a risk shokhin and Lutsenko wanted Ambassador Ivanovich removed and left parties telling because they were corrupt and she was a force against corruption in Ukraine. And they wanted her out of their way to think about the collateral damage that was caused not only in our own country but around the world and in Ukraine by this scheme to aid the president's reelection effort McAfee pretty clear sense sense of what that might be in Ukraine when it comes to anti-corruption president trump alleged personal role in trying to remove ambassador. IANOVICH before she was ultimately recalled old. We're going to have more on that coming up this hour as well but we started four we get to that. There's there's one other piece of this that I want to foreground here. That isn't specifically weekly about President Trump. It's about another senior. Member of the trump administration who love says stepped in to play a role in the Ukraine scheme at a very key moment the new president of Ukraine elected on this anti-corruption platform right engaged in ongoing war with Russia he's inaugurated in May as the new leader of Ukraine. Heat somewhat desperately needs a show of support strong show of support from the United States government. That's key to the US. Ah the Ukraine in terms of its fight with Russia among other things on the eve of Zelenskaja's inauguration Mr Parthenis told me and the portion of the interview. We played yesterday okay that he was directed by Rudy Giuliani with spoken to president trump about it. He was directed to really turn up the pressure on Ukraine to demand to the Ukrainian government. That's unless they announced Abidin investigation the Ukrainian government would lose not only all US military aid lose all the US aid and vice. President Pence would not come to the inauguration of the new president. Vice President Pence has plans to attend the inauguration. At that point were in full swing..